July 2010 - Old Archived Area - Do Not Post Here!
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Dr H
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July 8th, 2010 at 6:15 am
Wow,a new thread. Shelly Dawn, thank you for encouragement on sleep. I think mine right now is my daughter also is an addict, and I’ve tried to get her to rehab. She doesn’t know why, but she doesn’t want to go to Dr.H, but a rehab center. I’m worried a bit about her, hope she gets the help she needs there, and it’s been plain hell. The sheriff has been out twice in 2 weeks for hitting me, (Told her I wouldn’t have that in our home anymore), yes it was hard tough love, and after sitting me on monday then coming after me with a baseball bat, she hearndme calling 911, once again. They came out, and she had been calling one rehab on her own, showed the officers the phones logs,and asked if I was happy with that, and not wanting to press charges once again, said yes, if she truly forllows though. Oh, yes, and she’s bipolar, and her dr. still prescribes her antivan, clopin, ambien, norco, bipolar meds, and . We will see how it goes. Will know soon. Shelly Dawn- hope you are doing well. Withing your getting well yourself, you have kindness to think of others. You are a kind person. How many days do you have SD? Keep on doing well.
MK-I actually scrappbook with a dr. and a nurse on Wed. Nites. Last night the Dr.,a surgeon, was talking with the nurse who is a charting nurse in ER. She expressed her concern on going back to soon and not keeping up. She’s had her last treatment Friday the 2nd, and although her cancer Dr. spoke to her ans said to her, I’m not finished beating you up yet. So the surgeon told her they were looking for nurses in the hospital to help cancer patients after their surgery to guide the patients through their recovery and treatments. I thought of you and wondered, would you be interesting in working in a cancer treatment center? Other than meds that help the patient with nuseall
Shelly Dawn (SD) Thank you so much for you concern of last of sleep. but think I lknow why, and will work on it. Pain in my knees at night is one of the culprits, but is should pass. I do just sleep from pure exhaustion about every 3 days, and my husband is great about driving me when I’m so tired, and afraid I’ll fall asleep. But again thank you, and I hopeYOU are doing well. How many days now SD? Let us know how you are doing.
MK- Have you thought about nursing at a cancer treatmend center? Don’t know if this would be up uour alley — just something else to consider?
As this new blog starts, lets not forget
THINK
as we post. Very good adice from Dr. H and Stratman.
Have a great day everyone.
Hugs and kisses to all. Don’t know why my computer is spitting out my words like this. Must have hit a buttone I know nothing about. Everyone have a great day. Be Kind to everyone as we go through our day. I know it’s on my mind. God bless everyone.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Shoot, I wrote one post and thought it got lost. I’m not crazy or BUI. So I rewrite, post, and there are both post. That is why so long and repeating myself. SORRY. Not great at the computer. Will keep next post shorter.
Again, I apologize. GREMLINs.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Thanks for all of the encouragement to all of u on the blog; Princess, Shelly Dawn, MK, ratdog and Doc. Today is day 6 and I am starting to feel better. I liked the comments about not telling or telling every dr. I see about any other Dr. I see. MK, thank you for the advise on guilt (its not helping any). I am happy to be clean and sober today. I went to two meetings and they talked about the only person we can control is our self, no one else. I also liked the analogy on the blog about drawing a circle around oneself. right now I think only I can fit in the circle, the others will just have to stay outside of it for now. I am trying to stay close to the fellowship and have been talking with my sponsor daily who has been thru and has damn near the same story i do. It’s ironic but the more I listen to others in AA I hear my story over and over, just happened thru someone else. I am working on remaining teachable and to “easy does it”. On a side note I took my dog Beowolf (Beo for short) to the dog park and beach today and it was wonderful, I have someone to take care of and who needs me, now I can be there for him, he fits in “my circle”. Time for me to snuggle up with him and try and sleep which has been hard. Talk to you all later and thank you for your support.
July 9th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Wow… I changed a setting on the blog program and instead of 150 spam messages there are zero! I just hope I’m not blocking out any newbys.
miscreant… in general I think the master plane is keeping your “circle” with only you in it. This would feed into the concept of “boundaries” and I bet ShellyDawn has stuff to say about boundaries, you are so freakin’ eloquent and descriptive, you can help a bunch of folks here.
Hey Ratdog…. there’s a freakin out “stick up kid” in cambria who needs to get to some meetings…. or maybe even our cambria author could step up. he can’t drive…. (I’ll let him tell you about that) and if Stick up Kid wants to share some of the other issues going on in the background, bupster would be the resident authority.
Dr H
July 9th, 2010 at 11:39 am
miscreant, thank you for sharing your journey. It helps me to stay clean,I remember those first days way back and am filled with gratitude.You are an inspiration- keep in the moment, sleep will eventually come,when I couldn’t sleep I would keep a journal by my bed-It was fun to read several years later. Keep on keeping on-your life is waiting for you
MK
July 9th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Miscreant- Glad you are staying in your circle. For now, that is all that matters. You say you hear your story in others. I believe the story of an addict is always the same story. Just differnt person, different drugs/alcohol, same path to get where we are. Maybe that is why the meetings work so well. Keep it up…God bless
July 9th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Hi all,
Good stuff Miscreant, other than the fear of the unknown when walking into my first A/A meeting the next thing was hearing that I was sitting in a room of people just like me, slightly different stories but all tied together with the common thread of addiction, before that my sense of isolation was huge, I thought that I had to be the only person going through this self created hell, that to me was the most uplifting feeling, that I was not alone anymore that there were others with whom I could share my upward road to recovery was very uplifting.
As I mentioned the other day in one of my posts, that I had run across some web sites that were hell bent on trying to convince the world that A/A was a twisted warped crazy cult bent on taking over the world with there maniacal 12 step program and making us brainless zombies in the process. Now as weird as I thought that was somebody said that somebody on this blog had some good stories to tell in that regard about some groups they had been in that had some idiosyncratic behaviors, so if you’ve got some juicy tales of weirdness, let us in on the scoop.
Strat.
July 9th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Well, I believe saftey in numbers. I’m not going to hang around a bar, when there are AA meetings to go to, and the people there understand. Not gonna get thorown under the bus with people who understand. I know one thing: it sure takes all kinds, thank goodness.
I don’t know. I think recovering addicts are special. We’ve been to the bottom of hell, climbed our way back (knowing we could slip anytime) So, we, (I) appreciate things more. The smell of the sea. The breeze on my face, the heat on my back. Life is just brighter for me in good ways. Maybe I’m the only one feeling that.
July 10th, 2010 at 10:34 am
uh-oh, doc…authority?
hmm…
unless it has to do with plants or aircraft…
July 10th, 2010 at 10:50 am
miscreant, i thank you as well.
any sight of my past is a fresh reminder of where i am today.
good luck on your new path to recovery.
July 10th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
Thank you so much for all of your postings, warm smile, I needed this tonight! I love that i can read this stuff and feel understood! I am emotional which happens on and off, I ride the pink cloud and then I step out of circle and the storm comes in, like now. Idle hands…
So, I am going to do what I am told, stay in the moment and be present. I have to go further than walking the dog or baking (yep, i am really sick) I have to acutally tell myself “you are walking the dog, that is all, stay focused on that, the ground, the trees, etc.” I spin REALLY hard, giggle.
Princess, wow the story about your daughter, I am so sorry that sounds really tough. My sobriety date is May 24.
July 10th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
hate to double dip but sugar help me too, it is on my list, treat every night, having some gelato right now throwing the pitty party of mine out the window!
July 11th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Good for u SD. I’ve had fair share of pity parties, and finally realized they r hosted by our darkest place, where our addict wants us to be. We ain’t hosting no more pity parties!!!
July 13th, 2010 at 7:30 am
Well, Doc.
I tried to draw out some stories of afore mentioned weirdness but there was no response from the eloquent party in question, so we’re moving on.
July 13th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Strat: what are we talking about- dancing and chanting around a fire- being doused in chicken blood? rationilizing marijuana use? I’m curious
July 13th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Nothing that extreme I hope, just if others have experienced how members of A/A can sometimes twist the program to their purposes and how groups can wander away from the true intent of the program. Not to take anything away from the program but to let others know that fallible humans are running a self help program and not only should you keep an open heart and mind but the brain should always stay engaged.
Strat.
July 13th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Wow, I just realized that today makes one year!! I’ve had a couple of messups along the way, but I’m not even close to the person that walked into doc’s a year ago. I remember being such a mess, telling doc I just wanted my life back. Today I’m happy, I’m healthy, and I know I’ve layed off the meetings, but I make sure that I stay grounded everyday, So that I don’t have those messups anymore.
Thank you doc:)
Take care everyone!!
July 13th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Congratulations L. What a great year for you!!
July 14th, 2010 at 9:10 am
M.K. let me explain,
While reading an article on the 75th anniversary of A/A there were some other links leading to websites that are hell bent on defaming A/A in general and some other sites that were just venting about bad sponsors and cult like behavior etc. so in talking to Doc. about how my addict just ate this crap up but my other half( being a true A/A zealot) just couldn’t believe that people would circumvent such a wonderful program for their own ends, he mentioned that their were some members of the blog that had some interesting stories in this vain and I should try to throw out the topic and see if the persons in question would share so that’s my story and I’m sticking to it .
Strat.
July 14th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Hey Strat- it makes me sad to hear such stuff about AA, I too kind of ate it up when looking for new, more glamarous, cool wayto deal with my alcoholism! You know “the cure to alcholism” the guy on TV? all i can share is my experience and that when i didnt want anything to do with AA is because i didnt understand the program and wanted to be coddled and have other people do the work for me, if that makes any sense. I would have not said that when i was glued to the book and making appointments with spa’s, therapists, etc. I guess page 417 of the big book can be used in my thinking of these of these groups along with protecting my sobriety by participating and supporting AA to the best of my ability.
July 14th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Yeah ShellyDawn, didn’t you get mixed in with a “cult” kind of meeting once and they led you astray?
There’s the other fellow of “shadowbox” fame who his FIRST AA meetings were very splintergroup. Wouldn’t sing courtcards, salutes and weird customs…. (well,, maybe not salutes but other weird things)
Dr H
July 14th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
hey, are you knocking our secret handshake?
keep comin’ back - someone will eventually show it to you.
July 14th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Yeah ShellyDawn,
The easier softer way indeed, you know it’s funny, in retrospect to think back on my first week in A/A and the trepidation I felt at what might be asked of me by the program so that I could attain sobriety and the hardest request was that I surrender myself to a higher power, I couldn’t believe that handing over my egocentric addicted mindset to a power greater than myself was the key. But that is the easy part, it’s keeping that state of humility that is my constant task, maintaining my spiritual condition on a daily basis, I once heard some one say that soldiers know how to surrender, they put down their weapons and wait for further orders, where as alcoholics and addicts are like prize fighters who throw the towel in the ring and then as we start to get our wind back we start to pull the towel back one little piece at a time and we all know how that turns out. The miracle of being at the bottom and having the humility to surrender to a higher power has only happened once in my life and I don’t know if I could find that miracle again if I went out so I try everyday to make sure that towel stays in the ring where I put it the first time.
Thanks for listening.
Strat
July 16th, 2010 at 11:09 am
ShellyDawn ,How’s your Pink Cloud?
M.K., how’s your job search?
P.S., how’s the daughter?
Bup., how’s business?
Rat Dog, how’s the Isms?
Miscreant,how’s it hangin?
July 16th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
well, biz blows.
but thanks to my program of recovery i’m content.
i’m content in knowing that, if just for today, i’m ok.
that wasn’t the case in years gone by.
i would look for any reason to augment my state of mind,
and i found them.
what drama
what incomprehensible demoralization that followed.
damn, i don’t miss that.
i couldn’t be content without an altered state of mind.
having accepted the help available to me,
and having kept an open mind,
and only by grace have i maintained some semblance of recovery.
thanks go out to all here on the blog that have participated.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Hello all, dang, i stay off the blog for a few days and crazy stuff happens, go figure (don’t worry i’m just referring to the topic of aa bashers, I’m still sober 2day). I’ve been doing well and keeping in my circle (thx shellydawn and doc) setting up boundaries is key. I am happy i hav yet another day sober resetting my sobriety day being 7/2/10. When i read part of the blog there was a question about rationalizing smoking pot. I know people in aa that walk the line and feel that pot is ok. I was/am one of those people (probably that darn addict talking again). there are days were i feel like, well i have a medical card why shouldn’t I? then doc says “a Dr. prescribed those pills u got hooked on didn’t he?” I cant win with u doc but that’s ok. I have been looking at sober living homes because that is what i think i need. the addict tells me that of course i don’t need that, your to good for that and on and on and on. I found a good place today called kings house. anybody heard of it? anyways I’m finally tired and am going to get some much needed rest. I am walking through all of my legal and relationship problems sober and that feels good though it is extremely hard at times. I was rewarded today by my attorney calling and telling me some of the charges were reduced. Maybe in a couple years i can get back into education, just as long as I stay clean and sober. Thanks for all of your support on the blog, it means allot to me. Thank You
July 17th, 2010 at 12:08 am
Strat. Daughter got shipped to rehab after hitting me, then threatening to do more damade with baseball bat to side of head. One of sons old friends and helped me. She also stole my meds from de h and I’m going through some not great feelings. Didn’t write about it cuz I’m trying to change writing patterns. Afraid to call drh You know how many stories he gets. ( purse was stolen, lost them, yada yada. Do not want. Him to think I’m in that group ) thanks for asking. U r sweet friend.
July 17th, 2010 at 12:14 am
Good miscreant. Walking right direction.
MK. Job search any better? I’m sure u have been everywhere tried everthing. Did I mention aneye institute? They need RN
strat. How r u?
Sweet Shelly dawn. U make me smile.
Bup. Can u share your biz?
July 17th, 2010 at 7:30 am
Well Miscreant,
A clean and sober living facility? I don’t know I guess it’s one of those things, do you want to stay Clean, do you want to stay Sober? How serious are you this time around? And by the way what was your addicts rationalization about getting the medical marijuana card in the first place? Was it pain? I use to run that tape inside my head when all I really needed for the pain was 4 Advil (lower back, bone on bone) it just seemed like good addictive reasoning at the time “ I hurt their for I use” What does your heart tell you at this point in the game? Because I’ll guarantee you that if your having an inner dialogue at this point in your sobriety it’s your Addict that’s the loudest voice up there.
P.S. Sounds like your daughters in the right place for right now. And tell the Doc. the story and let him figure out if your one of those people,we love to label ourselves, remember that voice in your head is not your Higher Power It’s not even our best friend.
Bup. As you know Pg. 417 is the key.
And remember what Rodney Dangerfield said “Take my advice I don’t use it” LOL.
Strat.
July 17th, 2010 at 10:01 am
Thanks Strat I knew tough love was best for long time. Just didn’t have nuf support from hubby. “shell work it out”. Offered to bring her to drh but not her thing. Strat, I know I’m not a person who drops my meds down sink while brushing teeth, or have had my purse stolen a million times, gone to parties and said someone went through my purse. So I feel ok about that part of myself. I’m just ashamed that it happened to me, by my daughter, and I usually “know” where my purse is cuz I usually carry it with me, use it as a pillow, ect. Just those few times when her addict outsmarted me. And now I’m going through some withdrawls and my knees hurt like nuts. And why don’t I contact DrH? Wish I knew why. (bc even though I didn’t do it, I’m embarressed).
July 17th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
For me a program of rigorous honesty is key for me-but what I am finding out is most people are NOT comfortable with it. I have seen more startled looks on faces of HR people. Nurses are different-they have seen it all and I find most are accepting. I wish the whole world followed the AA philosophy-wouldn’t the world be a great place?file that under “ya right”
MK
July 17th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
MK. People who think they live their lives perfectly are selfish. I. Understand and agree with what u say. Some people just love to critizice people, so they don’t have to look inside of themselves and face what may be wrong within their life. Someways maybe our addictions aren’t so bad. We study, go to meetings and try to live life honestly BC we know what decitful is like and where it takes us. Hope this makes sense.
July 18th, 2010 at 8:27 am
Morning all,
Hey M.K. Is there some provision in your reinstatement that says you have to inform the potential employer of all the gory details? Or is this a situation where their going to find out when they do a background check on your license status? Is there any wiggle room at all on this? As your already aware Step 9 has the “harm them or others”clause, sometimes self preservation in the form of a lie by omission might be in order in this age of liability conscious H.R. Directors, reading this back makes it sounds like I’ve the morals of an slippery Ell, I don’t know, I’ll I know is that it sounds like you paid your dues and it’s time to be able to redeem yourself further by working the craft you love so much. And one last thing if the state board believes that you are redeemable what are the excuses the HR people are giving you for not hiring you?
Strat.
July 18th, 2010 at 11:04 am
People who have served time in prison for drinking to much, driving, falling asleep causing a severe accident and served time in prison, paying their dues, also can’t find a job. Not even at a fast food resturant cleaning toilets. Mk only hurt herself, and rest assured there r nurses working loaded, just not caught. No. It’s not fair that you work this hard, and life won’t let you back in
July 18th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Strat- I do and I don’t. I am on probation with the BRN-unlike diversion where they keep your past secret-mine is on the website.So HR runs my license and sees that I am on probation. Now some read all the way through and see the good stuff too. What is hurting me more is the fact that I haven’t worked in 4 years. I see that Arroyo Grande Comm HR put my app through to the hiring manager. King City was OK too,haven’t heard from Sierra Vista Cottage Hospital in Santa Barbara will hire me-but no opning in the dept I applied to-so I sent one to another dept that had an opening. I need to take a refresher class before I can do direct patient care-which starts in August- so I apply for case management positions-but then they want certification- I got a letter from Lassen County Prison who wants me- I won’t even tell you what they are paying-its obsene.I figure I will give it a shot-it is a timely process and you need a Phd to navigate the states web site.
I found a hospital in Pasadena that has an inpatient CD unit and 5 open RN positions,and sent my resume,who knows. My criminal stuff is expunged and long ago-so I can say no-but when they read the boards website-it gets tricky- we need to educate the public on addiction and recovery-stressing it is a disease-not a moral shortcoming-like I said if the world used the tools found in AA we would be a much happier world-don’t cha think? so I trudge on sending out copious mounds of applications-one of these days it will hit! Just as a side note- I turned myself in and voluentarily surrendered my license-never had a patient complaint-I did use at work a few times just to “get well” I had to be pretty sharp in the PACU-did most of my using on the way home-or in the back bathroom of my home. Not that it matters because I could have hurt someone I am grateful I didn’t. OJK I have rambled on too long- Thanks for all the support guys-u r awesome
July 18th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I am the worlds worst speller
July 18th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
We all spell poorly when on the blog MK. I know the salary isn’t great at the prison, but would look good on your resume….a thought
July 18th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Anybody tried tapering off suboxone lately? Anyone been successful at it? I’ve tried without very good results. Looks like the usual players here on this blog still. Does this Sloarc place do rapid detox? I would be willing to try it if it would work on suboxone. Anyone know if it does?
July 18th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
ODM Ithink the Docs had some patients come off of Subs see if he’ll chime in.
July 18th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
P.S. The State Penal system pays very well I believe thats M.K.s point, where else can you get a job where all you need is a drivers license and a G.E.D. and start at $50,000 a year as a guard and with overtime it runs up in the $80,000 realm
July 19th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
ODM. Strat is right. Call drh call him on his line if need be. God as my wittness, NO Dr has helped me more than any Dr combined in my life.
Strat sorry for misunderstanding what MK was saying. I know prisons pay well. My now RN dil worked in one nearby for extra money to get her through school. BF his death my son was working on being CO. Sometimes keeping your name during detox and rehab seems like a great idea,especially when there’s lots on the line like MK has. MK, I’m remembering correctly? You were never caught at work were you? I just wish u the best and I believe it will come.
July 19th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Strat- I got a preliminary offer of 47.19/hr. Do the math- that is some serious money- It is at High Desert State Prison in Lassen County. I don’t want to be that far away from civilization,kids and family. I think my recovery would suffer.
No princess I wasn’t caught at work. OK here it it. When you give medication sometimes you don’t use all that is contained in the syringe. You have what is called “waste” which you must dispose of with another RN who witnesses it. Now lets just say the narcotic was put in another syringe and the original one was filled with saline, now you are wasting saline and having it witnessed. Or you discontinue a PCA machine- it has a bag full of narcotic that you could pull off a few mls before wasting the rest. It goes on and on and its all bad. Bottom line is I don’t do that anymore and am ashamed I ever did. I turned myself in because I thought I needed help and knew if I was able to work my husband would insist I work. And yes he knew I was using-he used to insist I bring him home some -using various blackmail techniques. I turned myself in because I didn’t have the courage to leave him sooner. But I can’t think like that. That was a really awful time for me-I would rather put my head in a meat grinder then take another narcotic they are poison to me.
Now as far as detoxing subs I have done it- it can get uncomfortable and does seem to take a while- didn’t like it and went back on- now I am on for life because I can’t go through that hell again. I had no energy, couldn’t eat or sleep and had no quality of life- and this went on for months-I saw no end in sight so I gave up and went back on the suckers. I can’t afford them and hate the fact that I have to take them. I guess its the whole surrender thing- I basicly accepted it for what it was and moved along. Hope all is well with everyone- Rockin is actually doing really well. But you didn’t hear it from me
July 20th, 2010 at 2:19 am
MK. I didn’t think you were. So I do remember things I read. You were brave to turn yourself in. I understand about certain marriages that aren’t perfect I live one myself. He’s a honest man and I know he loves me,but he watched a very abusive father treat his mother horrible. So he overcompinstats and it doesn’t always work. But if he ever hit me, I’m sure I’d shoot him. He has admitted that perhaps my addiction started from him being more married to his business than to me leaving me to raising children by my self. Oh well, life decisions. MK, you are strong, brave, honest and that will all lead you to good. Thanks for the response. God bless
July 20th, 2010 at 2:20 am
Oh, and I’m mor stinkerbell than princess. Lol
July 20th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
ODM - Yes I have tappered off Sub. Everyone has a procedure. The real issue is “are you ready”. If not, you are way better off on Sub.
-Drums
July 21st, 2010 at 7:05 am
yesterday’s wsj had an article on portugal’s drug decriminalization.
legal possession for users - heroin and coke - everything.
in 10 years an estimated 100k heroin users declined to 55k.
many other claims of successful benchmarks.
what do you guys think?
July 21st, 2010 at 10:14 am
I think ” what r they doing? “. Pretty good statistics.
July 21st, 2010 at 10:17 am
And also, if more addiction drs were like dr H we”d have more success. Went to one other many years ago. Not the same at all
July 21st, 2010 at 4:33 pm
bup; did the other 45k die? or did they actually quit.
mk
July 22nd, 2010 at 6:38 am
the stats said in 10 years the est user population decreased from 100k to 55k
July 22nd, 2010 at 10:56 am
Tried to post a link to the Time magazine article on the Portugal issue but I think Doc.s got the spam filter cranked up pretty tight, instead of jailing users the’re using that money for treatment at a much reduced cost to the taxpayer and addicts are turning themselves in. Who’ed thunk
July 22nd, 2010 at 11:21 am
I think that there are too many industies here in the United States, with political clout,that benefit from the criminalization of drug use. Think of all the people who would be out of work,if everybody cleaned up and went to treatment. Now this would be good for the treatment end- interesting article
July 22nd, 2010 at 2:50 pm
I continue to have an amazing life in this program. It wasn’t long ago that my life was in complete disarray. But now I take my meds in the morning and get on with my day.
I wasted so many years but now I at least have a chance to lead a happy, healthy life. I am not sure what the future holds (who does?) but I know for a fact that I do not ever pass out and hit my head on something hard, I never worry about how I am going to get “well” and I am actually grateful to be here. In other words everything is completely the opposite of how it used to be.
And I hope everyone is doing well.
July 22nd, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Are you currently off Subs Drums?
If one could be SURE that if you tried tapering off and it didn’t work you ended up back on subs instead of your “drug of choice” then one could try tapering off every other week…. but it doesn’t seem to go that way, some people succeed, some return to subs, and some relapse.
Some of those who relapse …. die. I heard the football player guy who died was on subs once upon a time…
Yes OldDustyMan, people do get off subs.
If I’m correctly reading between the lines of your post, you are currently dependent on opioids other than Suboxone. As I watch people that rarely works out because they abuse the meds, whereas folks don’t seem to abuse suboxone because of the “ceiling” effect they have, AND subs help them NOT abuse other opiates.
Dr H
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:18 am
No I’m not on other opiates. I was asking about rapid detox off of suboxone. Can it work? Does rapid detox even work at all - off anything?
July 23rd, 2010 at 12:53 pm
ODM - I know little about rapid detox. I am fairly certain the process works for Sub just like other opiods. I have heard negative and positive about rapid detox. I do not think SLOARC does rapid detox.
Dr. H. - not on any narcotics.
Drums
July 24th, 2010 at 9:46 am
dr h,
do you have a comment on ‘rapid’ detox.
there are a lot of offers out there - do they really work?
July 24th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
Well….
There are TWO parts of recovery;
1) Stopping.
2) NOT STARTING AGAIN!
Rapid detox slams the body into instant severe withdrawal using a medication that RIPS all the opiates off the receptors. This process is done under general anesthesia, so essentially you are not awake during this withdrawal. Several hours under, wake you up and PRESTO, you are no longer an addict. Yeah, right.
In my opinion “stopping” is a SMALL part of the problem, and it’s 90% “not starting again”.
Seems many of the people who really really want to taper off Subs are the people who don’t go to meetings or anything else to support “sobriety”. The whole “something for nothing” approach to recovery.
Yes, “Rapid Detox” would rip the buprenorphine off the opiate receptors, but then what?
There tends to be a lot of “dysphoria” when opiate addicts go opiate free, which is a problem. The Vivitrol people (once a month opiate blocker injection that helps alcoholics) are positioning themselves to treat opiate addiction as well including FDA approval etc.
It (Vivitrol) certainly would be effective in those who wanted to stay opiate free, but it doesn’t address the craving and dysphoria.
There is a current SLOARC patient on Suboxone who had a horrific experience with like 10 days of severe nausea and vomiting which also ended up being he was allergic to the freakin’ anti-nausea medication!
Wonder If I can get him to weigh in.
Speaking of other fringe treatments, anyone here know about ProMeta? It’s a “proprietary” protocol of using flumazenil (like Narcan for Valium/benzo’s) along with gabapentin (Neurontin), supposedly works for both Alcohol and …. amphetamines!
The academic community pooh-poohs it but a colleague of mine who I totally trust has done lots and lots and says it clearly works.
Dr H
July 24th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
thanks doc,
one more question
when you can take time to answer
what’s your definition of “dysphoria”
July 25th, 2010 at 10:48 am
I’ve just started my SUB treatment (6th day) and am starting to feel guilty about feeling good…stupid, huh? Maybe some of you would be able to help me here….
I have a few built in “guilt receptors” without adding alcohol and drugs to the mix…. Old Catholic, childhood abuse, alcoholic parents, middle child, etc.. So…I’m trying to sort out what is real.
My parents got “sober” when I was a teenager, so I am all too familiar with AA, Alanon, Adult Children, etc. I can remember hearing how disgusted the alcoholics were with addicts, like they were the scum of the earth. It seemed to be more acceptable to be an alcoholic than an addict. I honestly didn’t think too highly of the program. How in the world can a person addicted to alcohol judge a person addicted to ANYTHING else?!?! I REALLY didn’t want what THEY had!
Fortunately…lol, I grew up to be both. The first time I went to AA as an adult alcoholic, I felt welcome and accepted. I continued to go to meetings until I experienced the “13th step” with a vengance.
To shorten the story, I was attacked after a meeting and never went back. I never said anything about it because of my own issues with sexual abuse…working on that.
I attended my first AA meeting (again) on Friday in SLO. Dr. H (you know him…the one that saves lives!!!) suggested VERY STRONGLY
that I go to a women’s meeting so I would feel safe. The meeting was great, but as I sat there, I thought…I am a fraud! I didn’t share because…yes, I am an alcoholic, but my true drug of choice is opiates. Then, on top of that, I don’t really know if I have been “clean” at all. I have not taken anything but what Dr. H has instructed me to take, but I am not miserable enough (in fact, I’m down right freakin’ happy!) to be in the early stages of sobriety…I’m not craving anything because of the SUBS.
I was feeling so guilty about being in an AA rather than NA meeting. I found a woman that I was comfortable with after the meeting and talked to her about the AA vs. NA issue. She was just the person I needed to talk to. She had been given the “you don’t belong here” herself… Great! Unfortunately, the issue is still alive and well some 35 years later but she did tell me, “Don’t let anyone take away your seat”. Looks like I have to fight to belong…not right if you ask me.
The second (and biggest) part of my guilt is this…. Am I clean and sober? I am taking SUBS which, as doc says, belongs on the opiate shelf at the pharmacy, so am I truly clean? I am also taking Ativan, but only as doc says…REALLY!! lol AND… I AM HAPPY!!! For the first time in years, I am living my life. I know I wouldn’t be feeling this way if not for the Suboxone, so does it count???? Am I clean???
I apoligize for the length of this and if it seems to be scattered. I’m new and don’t know the rules yet….lol. Another YET! At one of my appts. with Dr. H, he wrote on the back of the SLOARC “postcard”,YET…. I haven’t lost my home…YET, I haven’t lost my job…YET, etc. That postcard is my bookmark…another daily reminder of my powerlessness. Thank you again, Dr. H!
July 25th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
i guess i can answer the question or define dysphoria myself,
but is it really the opposite of euphoria?
i hate to think too much,
but i have a strong physical reaction when i fight off the urge to use.
follow me?
July 27th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
LiteAgain!!!
You win the prize for best blog for a new member!!
Sorry it took a few for me to clear you for the blog, but from now on your comments will show up without delay.
I really really really (times 1000) encourage you to just DROP the whole “AA vs NA” stuff, ZERO need to fight for a seat.. broaden your definition of “alcoholism” and voila! You’re an alcoholic, as I said today, you just liked your alcohol “freeze-dried”! It is only and “issue” if you allow it to interfere, and your “addict (alcoholic)” would really really really like it if you got completely distracted by a few words and went out and used (”drank”) again.
I’ve weighed in on the whole “are you really sober” issue, and I’ll let some of the others here put their two cents in.
WELCOME!!!!
Dr H
July 27th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Bupster (BTW, thanks for the call today asking about any Las Vegas players)
euphoria high/elevated/pleasant
aphoria(?) absent (never really heard this but it makes sense word root wise)
dysphoria lower/unpleasant
dizzy and nauseous would be dysphoria
Dr H
July 28th, 2010 at 7:52 am
Welcome, Liteagain
Didn’t the kind Doc. esplain (said using a Ricky Ricardo voice) to you that addiction is not about the substance, addiction is your relationship to the substance, if we were able to pick up a drink or pill and take or drink just one we wouldn’t be addicts, and it’s not our bodies that tell us that we can’t live for another second unless we have more, so it’s our interactions with the above mentioned stuff that’s the problem. So if you’re taking prescribed medication as per instructions and not self medicating or trying to alter your conscience yes your clean and sober and don’t let any A/A purest tell you different. Imagine that you’ve been diagnosed with depression and have been prescribed Zoloft is it anybodies business that your taking it? Of course not, but I’ve heard of A/A purest telling people to stop taking it, with disastrous results. So I equate my Subs taking to something like insulin or a heart medication it makes me well, end of story.
As for you having a place at a meeting remember the only requirement for A/A membership is “the Desire to Quit Drinking” so if you fall in that category welcome to A/A just be a little cautious as to how truthful and open you are about your drug abuse in the beginning until you can feel things out and become part of the group so to speak. Ok enough of my rant over and out.
Strat
July 29th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Liteagain. You’ve Been on ” vacation” while on opiates But now you’ve ” come home”, sober, clear headed and happy. Your suitcase is unpacked of the things you did or were as an addict. Now you pack for this new happy vacation of sobriety. Be careful of packing ” to much”. Pack your subs, the tools you’ve used that help you, meetings. You no longer need to carry around guilt. You sound like you are on the right path. Who we were when using need not define who we are sober. You have every right to enjoy your sobriety and the happiness you feel. Often we will get ourselves in trouble with things we carry from the past. Sounds silly I’m sure. Hope it helps a little
July 30th, 2010 at 5:50 am
WOW!
Doc…Thank you for giving me a prize and clearing things up for me, yet again! I kept watching the blog and when nothing was posted, I thought I had done something wrong…written too much, said something I wasn’t supposed to, etc.
This thinking, I’m sure, is one of those “unpacked suitcase items” that needs to be left behind. THANK YOU, Stinkerbelle (love that name, by the way!) You have helped a great deal. I think I’m going to borrow your post and tape it up on my bathroom mirror, if you don’t mind. I promise to give you the royalties! This is something I need to think about every day…you’re awesome!
Hey Stratman! Thank you for your help with the sobriety issue. I have an overwhelming desire to give entirely too much information (as Doc will attest to…I’m sure he deletes most of my novel-length “check in” messages as soon as he hears my voice!) about myself to the wrong people. I took your advice with me to the next meeting and just sat in my seat and listened…
I couldn’t find a women’s meeting to attend, so I prayed and took my chances at a mixed meeting. Not only were most of the people there dually addicted, the very person who had hurt me all those years ago was there. He came up to me before the meeting and asked me to forgive him! Not only did he do that, he shared that he was able to make an ammends to someone for something that had been bothering him for years. It was a big group and everyone saw him talking to me at length, so it made me feel safe in continuing to go to the meetings there.
It is amazingly incredible to watch God open closed doors AND eliminate my excuses one by one.
Thank you all again for your welcome and support. I am so happy to be here.
Liteagain
July 31st, 2010 at 1:39 am
Awwww, Liteagain. I believe that YOU will be strong on the blog with your insight! Keep writing as we get to know your soul even more. God bless you. As you have discovered already, sober is better than using anyday of the year!!
July 31st, 2010 at 7:45 am
Thank you, Princess…you are an inspiration to me. I haven’t cried happy tears in a long time. You’ve made me feel welcome and special AND so gratefull to be sober. Last night was the first struggle with depression (paying the bills!!!) but today is a new day and your words are helping me to appreciate it.
I was thinking about Doc. before I logged on…
At my last appt., I asked him why he cared so much about helping people like us. As he told me, in a very annimated “Doc.” manner, the reasons he liked helping, I realized how much he loves each and every one of us. (Doc., you can say these are OUR goals and OUR…blah, blah, blah, all day long, but you are right there with us. You are happy for our success and there for us when we stumble. We are your “kids”).
Not only is he unlike any doctor I’ve ever seen, he has helped me (unknowingly) with an issue I’ve struggled with for years….a loving Father (my God). My own father was sick and abused me, so I’ve had trouble understanding “God” as a loving “Father”. In my world, “father” did not equal love. The closest I’ve come to relating God’s love with a parent’s love, is comparing it to the love I have for my sons. Now that’s a riot! I love them incredibly and unconditionally, but my mind is a mess! And…I gave birth to them. I am physically connected. They are a part of me.
Doc. has never met any of us before, yet he cares from the start. I’m not saying that the good Doctor has become my “God”, I’m just starting to understand the relationship through his actions. I have been able to pray with a greater understanding and more trust because of the way he has treated me.
So…THANK YOU, Doc.! Thank you for being there, helping us, and for a prescription you didn’t even know you filled! Please thank your family for me (us) too. You devote so much time to all of us…that has to take its toll at times.
And…thank you again, Princess Stinkerbelle. I am so looking forward to getting to know you better. You are so encouraging and are gifted in your ability to communicate your thoughts. God bless you too!
Have an awesome day!
Liteagain
July 31st, 2010 at 8:01 am
p.s. If you don’t really “love” us Doc., let me keep believing, OK? lol
and…it’s “prescription”…too much coffee this morning!
July 31st, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Liteagain I think I’ve heard everyone on the blog say great things about Doc, including myself, and why and how does he “get us?”, and why would hecwant to? Because it’s who he is. And I thank God he is. Also as youvsaid, I’ve indeed have never met such a caring dr. In my walk of life either. We are blessed. I live in the Cental Valley, desperate to stop using norcos for years. No one here helped with understanding. Started surfing the net, read about Dr. H on Internet, and being lucky enough to have a home in MB, I knew seeing him was doable. Called the next day and had an appoinment for the following day. He spent time talking with me. To me. I slipped a couple of months after missing an appointment due to a drastic loss in our family. Patty called to see if I wanted to re- schedule, and I said no and let her know what was going on. Soon after, Dr H called and said are u using? Thinking he’d probably kick me out or say I was bad, he said ” get your butt over here.”. Again, I was back on the road to see him within a couple of days, he helped me understand why I went back to norcos, and got me back on track. He is indeed a caring person, with what I can only imagine is a loving family. How he juggles all he does, I don’t know how. But I’m grateful that he does. I believes he knows who is serious, who will need more help knowing they may not get it yet, and he keeps his arms open. Gosh, sounds like “Dr H day!”, and yes doc, you and your family deserve it. Well, I tend to ramble on so I’ll end now. I also tend ( and never claimed to be) to go onbecause I’m not the most intelligent person, so I’m trying to remain quiet, not blog as much, and really think before writing. Now Strat- and bup-and MK, heck, everyone is highly intelligent. I try to keep up with them, but usually don’t do so well. Lol. May
July 31st, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Gremlins. Maybe to many brain cells gone. Good to hear from you today. Love to all
July 31st, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Princess…sure glad you told me that you were not the most intelligent person, cause I was thinking you were brillaint! Wheeeew! Really happy to be straight on that!
Seriously, I couldn’t let that go. Have you ever read what you’ve written? You could write short stories! I don’t READ what you’ve written, I FEEL your words. Don’t sell yourself short. If you believe that of yourself, then I have to feel the same way about me because I look forward to your blogs!
Thank you for sharing your Dr. H story…maybe he is God! hee hee
Love you already!
Liteagain
Love you already
Thank you for sharing your Dr. H story.
July 31st, 2010 at 3:27 pm
You’re right!…GREMLINS…sorry about that last part
August 1st, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Golly gee guys! I’m blushing now!
Despite the Kudos and praise, big picture, I’m NOT the one who makes a huge change in your guy’s lives, YOU are! I’m a facilitator, a conduit, I watch over a “portal” of escape, it’s like the underground railroad!
And seriously… they’re not my goals, if it was all an issue of “my goals” then I leave myself open to getting upset and distraught if people happen to slip and relapse, and getting upset and being judgmental are exactly what I avoid. Then the office is a “safe” place and people don’t mind coming back ….
So.. that all said… WATCH THIS!!!!
I’m going to make a new thread on the freakin FIRST of the month thank you all kindly for reminding me… NOT!