February 2010 - Archived - Do Not Post Here
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January 30th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
WOW<><>< Steve here.... I get to be the first Feb. blogger! Nah na na nah na!!! Ha ha....
As far as what we do at "Steve's group"....it's up to the folks that come....I use to "push" a little for everyone to open up and get to know each other, but found that to be too overwhelming for some folks, which I totally understand. So at this point you get to chose how much to reveal about yourself......Big picture, once you get over the "oooh, what if someone finds out I'm an addict" you will find life much easier and your recovery will jump into warp speed mode!! We live in a small town, and there are literally THOUSANDS of folks in recovery that go to meetings all over the place.....Jump in, the water is nice and warm...Chances are most folks KNEW you were messed up on dope or alcohol and to let them know you are addressing the problem is a POSITIVE thing!
Let's get this Feb blog jump started and keep up the great momentum from January...
Next SLOARC Group Session: Tuesday, Feb. 2nd, 5:30pm at the office. Come one come all!
Steve-----------out
January 30th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Hi…
Just checking in… Doc asked a simple question of me, “why don’t I check in or blog?”
I working on that question? The truth is, Winners do the things losers hate to to (old sales motivation quote).
As I left a meeting last night, something hit me… That is, this is safe, this forum or AA meeting. Its the outside world that trouble floods the streets.
OK… So, I’m jumping in, water is safe
January 30th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
WOWIE ZOWIE!!! Will wonders ever cease??
Winners do the things losers hate to do….. I will most definitely chew on that.
Funny when I talk to patients about the whole “joining a group of losers” part, SURRENDER, and Steve it QUICK to point out that surrender means join the winning side.
If you call us, or blog, you are putting your addict out in the open and for that moment you a probably firmly in charge of the “unit”, the cloak of sobriety then wears off and floats away once you stop doing recovery related activities.
Cheap Insurance….
A wise person said that AA (12-Step) is a place where addicts/alcoholics are not alone and they’re not “less than”.
Dr H
January 31st, 2010 at 9:36 am
Welcome wave. The nice thing about Steve’s group is that it’s usually people who blog on SLOARC, and as for myself, I felt safe knowing these people on the blog, we share the same Dr., and from what we read, we semi know them and what they are thinking. It’s just a soft gentle place to be. No judgements, very easy.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:52 am
Steve here….Thank you Princess for your kind words and I feel they are true…I hope you all feel you can talk about absolutely ANYTHING that the group can help with. We get off on some interesting subjects sometimes! And of course I want to make it clear that what we talk about is confidential and does not leave the meeting…
This aspect of recovery(anonymity) is not very important to me, (most folks in town knew me as that insanely drunk and loaded guy downtown!) because I’m ok with the way my life is today, but it IS important to many people for good reason, so PLEASE EVERYONE respect the anonymity of others.
NEXT SLOARC GROUP SESSION: Tuesday, Feb. 2nd, 5:30pm at the office…I found some absolutely AWESOME chocolate fudge cookies that should be a “controlled Substance” so come and get ‘em!! Ha ah..
Steve—–out
January 31st, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Rockin- Call, text, e-mail, just let me know you are okay, alright? You have to be my Valentine!!!! We’ll get through everything…love ya
February 1st, 2010 at 3:59 pm
mk, any word on the generic bupe?
have you tried elsewhere?
February 1st, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Hi,
Good to be here… Thanks for the kind words and a reason to smile
February 1st, 2010 at 7:35 pm
Wave- Re read what you had written. When my brother was alive (we live in the country) and he had delicious cherries that people would strip during the night and sell somewhere during the day. So, we all put our services into country community watch. We knew about what time things were happening, so the one on duty would drive around all his ranches. I was amazed, even out here, what I saw after 2a.m. I soon got pulled from duty, because I’m the type to follow cars that were stealing the cherries to get the license number, and these people would easily pull me into town and into their neighborhoods, which once I got in, didn’t know how to get out. I’m not stupid, but not exactly smart when something is being done right in front of my eyes. I guess I was replying to your comment about the outside flooding the streets. My dad used to tell me when I’d ask for a later curfew, that things happened after midnight. Just reminded me of him and his saying, and no, my curfew never was allowed past midnight. Smart man. Glad you like it on the blog.
February 1st, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Bupe- wondering about the generic. my husband was given some generic norco, and could tell right away that it wasn’t working. I took it back to the pharmacy and said, “thought it was the same.” He said he had seen so many people bringing in their generics because they didn’t work. Just hoping the generic works as well. that would be a heaven sent from above…
February 1st, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Happy February everyone!!!
Welcome Wave
I am not worried BTW about anonymity at meetings. I have been going for years and over that! It seems kind of weird here tho. At meetings you pretty much know they are all addicts/alcoholics or supportive visitors. Not someone else curious about this blog site.??
I am still struggling with the rigorous honesty thing!!! (subs and sponsor!) My sponsor does not want me on them, asked if I will be rigorously honest with her and I said yes. Willing to go to any lengths, etc, secrets will kill you,etc.
February 2nd, 2010 at 12:15 am
Jr.: we alcoholics have the same problem with antabuse in the AA community. there are a lot of old timers/purists who believe you should be able to achieve sobriety through going to meetings, working the steps, being of service, etc alone and that you should not be taking medications to stay sober (this is what i have heard at the north county meetings i go to at least). I go to meetings (not as many as Doc wants, but i’m working on it), haven’t started working the steps and don’t have a sponsor yet. Yet I’m coming up on 90 days sober. Not a huge accomplishment, but is more sober time than i’ve strung together in a long time. Antabuse is my safety net. It gives me about five days of consciously NOT taking my antabuse before I can safely drink. That’s a good amount of time to come to my senses, beat my addict back into submission, and make a phone call that will probably save my life. I’m a big believer in sobriety ‘by any means necessary.’ Doc has been doing this for a long time, I’m sure has tried a lot of different treatments, and has told you this is what works. I’m sure your sponsor is a wonderful person and has your best intentions at heart, but she is not a doctor and may not fully understand what subs are/how they work. Personally, I’d stick with what the experts (Doc and Steve) are telling you…they know what works. If your sponsor can’t deal with that and is going to berate you, make you feel badly about taking medicine prescribed by a Dr. of addiction medicine, maybe it’s time to look for a new sponsor. All just my opinion, and doc and steve, please feel free to shut me down if i’m speaking out of place. Good luck whatever you decide Jr.
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:51 am
man, science, meds, addiction and recovery methods have evolved.
if your sponsor hasn’t, find a new one that has.
imho
February 2nd, 2010 at 7:56 am
Good morning everyone…Steve here…..
Jr. MD we are having one of our group sessions at the office tonight at 5:30pm….You are welcome to stop by….AND a couple of points as far as anonymity and the blog are concerned, if you don’t “out” yourself here, no one knows who you are, ESPECIALLY anyone who is not a patient and is just reading and not posting…Second, Except for two people I can think of right now, EVERYONE who has posted on the blog IS a patient of ours or a past patient. The blog is open to anyone who would like to share their sobriety ideas with us, but so far we don’t have many outsiders…
As we move forward in our recovery I think we start to understand that the world as a whole, really doesn’t much care about our addictions, or lack of addictions! Ha ha….WE (addicts/alcoholics like myself) are the ones that THINK too much about what we are…..It’s not a big deal to most of society. My sponsor told me one time that I needed to “get over myself”…ha ha…..It makes it easier to become “part of society” instead of apart from” which is how most of us lived in our active addiction. Even if we were out in the world functioning at a high level, we spent a lot of energy living that “double life”……Responsible person at work; drinkin’ druggin’ person at night. (or in the bathroom at work in the middle of the day…)
Many seasons ago, I showed up for work like I always did (I was 25 years old) at a construction site where I worked and at 7am I was out behind some bushes pukin’ my guts out from a night of abuse..I had not even gone to bed yet…a very calm co- worker of mine walked over and said “you know Steve, you don’t HAVE to live that way ever again if you don’t want to.” I had NO IDEA what he was talking about and told him to F%#k off! He of course was a man with several years of sobriety, and a strong program..went to AA everyday and he invited me to come and just listen to what was going on there…He later became my first sponsor and is the man I attribute my sobriety and my great life to, today! I DID NOT stay sober from those first days, but HE DID! (once again showing that helping others is a big part of staying sober yourself)
BTW way that man of which I speak went to prison (not jail) for a bunch of years because he got drunk one night and smacked a guy with a pool cue at a bar. Unfortunately the guy died..So they let my future sponsor out of prison, years later, and within EIGHT HOURS he’s BACK IN, this time in Atascadero State Prison, because to commit a felony within 8 hours of leaving a 10 year prison sentence MUST MEAN YOU ARE INSANE, right? Fact is, he was just a garden variety addict/alcoholic like a lot of us! Nicest man in the world when he wasn’t using chemicals!!
Hope to see some of you tonight…see, I get to rambling on the blog too…..it’s a great place to let your feelings out….
Steve—-out (and off to the office
February 2nd, 2010 at 1:17 pm
I think it comes down to do what works for yourself. We r all full of opinions which r correct for them, but try to put a square peg into a circle. So, be true to yourself and you should do well.
February 2nd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
I’m not blogging very often, but I do read what other people write. That must count for something…right?
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:57 pm
steve- sorry i didn’t make it to group tonight, though you again did not call to remind me which makes me think you’re intentionally excluding me…sniffle,sniffle. Totally kidding =-)…the day just got away from us, we were out looking at rentals all day and next thing i knew it was 5:15…next time…princess, I like the square peg/round hole analogy as well. Though we are alcoholics and addicts and there is that side of our personality that is very predictable, devious and wants to destroy us, there is also the REAL us, the individual, the person we want to see more of. That side of us is the unique individual that each of us is, that has individual needs which are going to be different from the needs of others…
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Thanks for the replies. I don’t usually worry about outsiders, alcoholism. This is different. I heard someone in my class talking abot this site. They aren’t alcoholic! Kind of bugged me any one can read this. Not like a meeting (?)
February 3rd, 2010 at 9:48 am
Not A Blogger: Think we are going to have to change your name! Look at you thinking great thoughts and putting them out there for us to read. Enjoy what you say. And yes, I think reading counts enourmously for something, if not everything. Everyone needs a foothole to start somewhere.
JR MD-Haven’t seen to many outsiders, and DrH and Steve are pretty good about keeping things nice and comfy on the blog. Like I’ve said, I live out of town (2 hours) and unfortunately don’t get to many meetings that Steve has. In truth,, I’ve made one, and that’s where I met rockin, and she lives up to her name. I felt it was a nice safe place to go to, that who we blog with go also. You can give your blog name out or not, although I felt no reason not to. I liked putting a face to a name. Glad to see you jumping in with both feet. You aren’t going to take over DrH’s place are you? haha, jk There was a fuss awhile back if it should be opened up, but it was a small fuss, and not worth the clean up! If you find yourself here, it’s usually because you need to be, want to be, and not because you are going fishing around. If that makes any sense.
SPEAKING about Rockin. Don’t know where you are, physically or mentally, but miss you, am thinking good thoughts for you, and hope you find your way back home. Click your heels and say “there’s no place like home,” and remember everyone here loves you and wants only the best for you.
Everyone have a great day. My granddaughter told me yesterday that the groundhog saw his shadow, and that may not mean much at the coast, but in the valley, it’s yukky, it’s almost 9a.m. and still feels like nighttime, and I’m not looking forward to six more weeks of winter. MK, slap me in the face when I start complaining aboutthe 110 degree in the summer.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Thanks for the response stinkerbelle. I am sure once I get my feet more securely planted in sobriety (more than 8 days) my mood and motivation will improve, and I will be able to respond with more than self-centered comments. Keep up the good work bloggers!
February 4th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Blogger-I believe your motivation changes and improves every second you remain sober. Keep up the good work, and although I don’t think you are, but if you think you are responding with self-centered comments, do so if it helps. From helping yourself, you help others. And I’m a firm believer of that.
Took the grandgirls to Disney on Ice last night, and Disney does make magic! Talk about being self centered, I sat watching my girls, thinking about how much they reminded me of their father, and I think I cried through the whole show. Over 50, and singing and crying with Disney characters, and not ashamed at all. And that is the circle of life… wishing we all could have no worries for the rest of our lives…ttfn
February 6th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
……………………..it’s quiet on the central coast front. Nobodys’ gotten washed away, have ya? Jiss you all ya guys. Have a safe, warm yet great weekend….as always, ttfn, stinkerbelle…………………….off to a meeting…
February 6th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Jiiss should be Miss. My hands are cold….sorry…
February 8th, 2010 at 2:24 pm
Today is hard. I guess we are really never safe from this disease. It almost makes me want to give in to the addiction, to take the easy way out. BUT I won’t. I’ll hold on for just one more day, and do the same thing tomorrow. It is hard to watch others go out around me. I hurt so deeply for them. I cry for them. Today, I will stay sober, for me, and for everyone else who is struggling or has struggled in the past. I love all of you.
JWS :’(
February 9th, 2010 at 7:49 am
JWS: Sounds like you had a day with bad news. I don’t know what has happened, so my heart surrounds your pain, and those who are hurting right now. We speak so much of the joy and greatness of beating addiction. But you’ve brought light that constantly follows the hard daily fight, and often we don’t see anything in someone who seems to be doing well, or just doing okay, or maybe hiding from us, slip back into the well. That is why meetings are SO IMPORTANT. You have touched my heart from the begining, and I pray you, JWS, have a day, that reminds you that you are working for you, and that every day passed, is a day gone well. Love you…Keep in touch…
February 9th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
JWS: It’s been since early morning that i wrote to you, and let me start by saying; 1) i forgot that this was the Tulare Equip Farm week, and I’m on duty for my grandchildren which, a) is leaving me sleep deprived :), b) reading my where I must be schedule hourly, so I don’t let my daughter in law or husband down, yet by not checking my schedule against my calandar, I haven’t lost or forgotten any little child yet, but did forget to recheck my calandar against my dr. appoint card, and not checking my phone messages, forgot (not completely, thought it was Thursday) my drH’s appoint, but that was messed up anyway. I did write it on the calandar differently than what is riding around in the car with me. And so I apologize to Dr.H, but I did call, I hope, early enough so another patient could slip into my space. And so my week goes by; I’m not in my 20’s, 30’s, 40’s anymore and I’m doing my best. I’m not used to being ”on call’ through the night in case a small one goes outside trying to find their bathroom. Okay, that’s what’s going on here. BUT, I did re-read what I wrote, and it sounded off to me, and let me try to correct it.
“We speak so much of the joy and greatness of beating addiction. And in doing so you’ve brought the light that constantly follows us as we daily fight the hard fight. Often, however, we bask in the light, and in doing so, we often don’t see anything different in someone who seems to be doing well, or who is just doing okay, or perhaps may be hiding something from us, and slowly, they slip back into the well. That is why meetings are SO IMPORTANT. JWS, you have touched my heart from the begining, and I pray that you, JWS, have a GREAT day, one that reminds you what you are working for, what you HAVE working FOR you, and that you are reminded that every day passed and worked well, is a day gone and done well.” Ususally re-read before submitting, hope that makes more sense…. thanks…
We blog, talk, go to the Dr., Steve’s meetings, share, care, and MEETINGS!!! How important I’ve realized they are. One person can’t be on watch for everyone, especially with such a sneaky disease that we need to watch out for ourselves. This is why, I believe, Dr. and Steve encourage new patients and old to blog. And to stress the importance of meetings. Sponsers. So if someone is struggling, well, the more eyes watching, the more ears listening, the more we communicate, perhaps we won’t see anyone “go out around us” for along time, if ever again. We can only hope, and do what we need to do. I love ya all too…
February 9th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Bupe- yep pharmacys are getting it but there is no difference in price. The price will come down eventually but for the meantime we are stuck.
p.s. I’m still waiting for the board to send me my “authorization to test” been a month-I have this awful feeling for as long as I have to deal with them it is going to be a long wait on my part. What I find interesting is they are such sticklers for punctuality. Hmmm
MK
February 9th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Oh ya- not having good luck with the lower dose of subs. Need at least 4mg/day wears off quickly. Should take 8mg/day to be safe. It was worth a try but don’t want to mess up 3 years plus sobriety. Going to San Francisco to help my brother and his wife with their new baby. They also have a 15 month old that I adore. Love their Pacific Heights neghiborhood you can walk to everything. Parking a bit of a challenge so I may take the train up- never done that might be fun.
MK
February 10th, 2010 at 7:22 am
Mk. No, don’t take chances after all these years. And u will hear from and get all your papers soon. Government wheels are slow except to spend our
money. Train should be fun. Have lived by the tracks all my life but never have taken a spin.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Rockin- Are you reading? Are you okay? Hope so, thinking of you,,,
February 10th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Honestly, I’m writing so much cuz this is hard. This has been a hard week. I screwed up my appointment, and I’m not the best at being a nana 24/7 to 2 smaller children. And in a few months, even though I thought I’d thrown those feelings away, it won’t be long before my son’s ”anniversary” (i hate it called that) will be upon me, and I wonder…Am I alone? Sorry for feeling sorry for myself. I’m fine. I’ll make myself fine. Thanks,
February 11th, 2010 at 10:07 am
Good morning all,
Hey P.S. grieving is a life long process that you come to terms with in what ever manor is best for you ,to say that you have dealt with the emotions and that you should not feel hurt over your son’s death is probably jumping the gun just a tad. Just let the feelings come at you and deal with them with an open heart and remember accept the feelings as they come don’t try to make them fit a schedule or mold of your making. It’s never easy but acceptance is the key. Now all I need to do is go practice what I preach.
Strat
February 11th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
Thanks Strat. You are coming through my open heart loud and clear.:) I’ve lost my parents; that’s supposed to be natural,although still hurts. A son? I’ve read, listened. It’s not an easy one…and I’m just trying to smile and be normal, but it hits that button, you know? Thanks again…
February 12th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Hi there all in recovery land- I have had an interesting experience with my suboxone. I should have left well enough alone but I was trying to save money. I went from 16mg/day to 8mg/day without any problem-didn’t even notice it. So I then went from 8mg/day to 4mg/day and it seemed to be working fine, about 3-4 days after the decrease I would wake up in the middle of the night shivvering and achy,just couldn’t get comfortable again and would watch TV till I fell asleep. Then the next day I take my sub and I feel ok. I would be run down and tired throughout the day from lack of sleep so I didn’t go to the gym or found myself napping. Didn’t put it together though. Then I cut down more- same pattern 3 days later achy etc.. nose is running,jumpy, cranky. Then I am rooting through the refigirator for something and I find a bottle of wine-normally I could care less-my parents have wine with dinner occassionally-but this time my addict was waking up and said ” gee dosen’t a glass of wine sound good about now?” Then it hits me that not only does suboxone keep my opiate receptors blocked it keeps me in a place where I am not “looking for something” does that make sense? I thought of the “vitamin defiency” theory that Dr. H explained to me. FYI my DOC is Hydrocodone alcohol was never an issue for me (yet) I was one of those people who would go out with my girlfriends and have a margarita laugh and enjoy myself and that was it-seriously- one (I had to drive home). So before I start rambling- I went back to 8mg/day and feel like my old self again. Interesting how the mind works.
To me it is amazing that there is something avaliable that takes away suffering and helps control the symptoms of a chronic disease. We are so lucky to have this avaliable. Along with meetings and visits to the doctor,I am able to have a life again.
I am reminded of a family group I went to at Cottage in Santa Barbara. One of the participants wife had pancreatic cancer. She sat and listened to some of the comments and when her turn came she said- not bitterly but it was powerful- how lucky we all were to have a way out. Go to meetings take your meds and you can recover- she would have done anything for the same opportunity-I remember that from time to time and was grateful I went to that meeting. OK enough out of me- time to wait for the mail
MK
February 12th, 2010 at 10:31 am
oh ya- I didn’t drink the wine
February 12th, 2010 at 11:09 am
WOw Mk. We are lucky. That’s a great story and glad you shared it with us. Glad u didn’t drink the wine. But I have a ? For anyone who knows how to answer it. Dr h said ” no drinking” and I like pills. But I’ve never understood ” vitamin defincey” is. Thanks
February 12th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Ugggg!!!!
February 12th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
How Uggg! How Uggg doing?
You know, life is nicer with, oh, rose colored glasses, a touch of kindness, a ton of concern, a armful of giving, a dose of UNDERSTANDING, and when you mix these together, you get lots of love. L, hope you aren’t Uggg next time. Nice to know you are still around though…take care…
February 13th, 2010 at 10:11 am
question for doc…
when you went to suboxone ground school
did you leave knowing - fully - about the addictive properties of sub?
or has it been ojt?
February 13th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Bupe
Hmmm…. I would start with saying “good question” but…
Your question includes an assumption, and the assumption is up for debate in my opinion.
First question:
“Is Suboxone extraordinarily “addictive” beyond what one might reasonably expect”
MY OPINION = No.
Opiates are opiates (okay okay be technical… “opioIDS are opiOIDS”), they act on the opiate receptor, they have a host of physiological biochemical properties like “activation” and “up-regulation of receptors” and “tolerance” and they create a physiological state that results in a characteristic “withdrawal” when stopped.
Second question:
“Are there “major” differences between different opioids? (For the moment let’s just talk about the “full-agonist” opioids like morphine and heroin and Oxy and Vicodin and dilaudid and methadone etc.)
MY opinion: No.
There are some problems here though that I’m not sure I fully comprehend, but my basic answer stays the same. Personally I have not had the pleasure of “field research” but everyone tells me different opioids “feel” different, and I have seen that methadone affects people differently than some of the others. Not to get all technical but I think some of this has to do with the different opiate receptors the drugs act on.
more to follow
Dr H
February 13th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I’ll be short, we are loading the car to head to MB. Suboxone, even if it has some opiates or opiods, work, in maybe a new field that will have to be studied as we go along. I believe it’s fairly new, and Dr.H or Steve, let me know if I’m wrong. Seems to me like people who took their DOC are now more concerned about why is it in the suboxone. TO MAKE US SUCEED.
Let’s see how the study an research goes. Always have the option of staying on it and being normal, or getting off of it and sweating it out. I only say this with caring in my heart, including for myself.
I WISH you all a safe, happy, sober Valentines day, with the one you love, or the hobby you love to do. Spring is springing out here, an I almost hate to leave, but I did get my sweet peas planted. Love to all.
Rockin…Are you still around sweetie? Happy Valentines from me, special.
MK- Don’t watch the mail box. A pot watched never boils, but DO let us know when you get the rest of your papers.
Are you guys open on Monday? DrH and/orSteve
February 13th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Continued….
Next Question:
“Are some opioids more “addictive” (cause worse withdrawal?) than other opioids?”
MY Opinion = Probably not.
We’ve been all over the whole withdrawal issue and my opinion is that withdrawal is withdrawal and a person has to undergo a set number of “units of withdrawal” which they can do a lot at once or a little over a long time but you don’t get “something for nothing” and you can’t “avoid” the “units of withdrawal”.
Tramadol/Ultram is a “weak agonist” opioid but we’ve seen people withdrawing from it looking as bad or worse than heroin or methadone or oxy.
Which then brings us to the question of:
“Is buprenorphine/Suboxone withdrawal better, worse, or different from other opioids?”
MY opinion = No.
So then why does it seem like getting off bupe/subs is so damn hard?
I say it’s two things.
1) Opiate addicts are INTOLERANT of opiate withdrawal period. They experience it differently from the physically dependent “non-addicts” and it’s worse and unacceptably miserable.
then…… drum roll ……..
2) The opiate deficiency theory, that opiate addicts DO NOT FEEL OKAY WITHOUT ADDED OPIATES.
That is what the world AND opiate addicts don’t take into account and pay attention to. If we ever got “PS3 addict” to show up again he would tell us again, that there is such a thing.
Conclusion to follow!
Dr H
February 13th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
I never thought of subs as addictive- because there isn’t that compulsion. I think of it like a diabetic thinks of insulin. Nice to have on board- makes me feel centered.
MK
February 13th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Surprise again I agree with mk. We go to dr h to help us. We r happy to feel good on sub. I think we analize to much after we feel better. But like mk said, u have diabetes, take take our meds for it same idea to well. Sometes I don’t get what people r thinking. Just drove into garage at Mb
February 13th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Mk- I would not suggest going down on your subs without talking to Dr. H first. But I went down from 2, 8 mg pills to 3/4 of a pill, but i did this slowly. i’m talking 2, then 3/4, then 1/2, then 1/4 so on and so forth. and i let weeks, maybe even a month pass before dropping a dose. Again, I did this with the consent of Steve and Dr. H, and would not do it unless you have talked to them.
I would not even consider going off subs if I were not active in AA and recovery. I’m at the point in my life where I am almost done with my steps and have almost a year of sobriety. I don’t think that makes me less susceptible to the disease by any means, but I feel that my recovery is strong enough to support me without suboxone. Of course, I do not know this for sure, but i feel personally that I need to at least try. I noticed when I first thought about coming off of subs, it scared the shit out of me, i literally burst into tears at the thought of it, thinking that I wouldn’t be able to do it. But the reality is, if the pill was entirely what was keeping me sober, then I would not need recovery,and I would have 2 years instead of almost one. I think that suboxone served as a tool to get me to recovery, it got me away from my drug of choice, got me well so that i could go to meetings, so that i could get through that period where the craving was so intense. I don’t doubt that it helps with cravings, and some might come back as I get off of it. But I have faith in my higher power, and in my recovery. I don’t want to be on a pill if I don’t really need it. I think I did need it for a long time, but i think i’m coming to that point when i don’t.
i don’t even think about suboxone and have forgotten to take it at times. Some might say that means that i was “planning” to use, but I can say for sure that I wasn’t. I have forgotten it several times and it was never,” OHMIGOD i need drugs i forgot my sub,” it was like “oh i didn’t take my sub yesterday, whoops” and then I would take it that day. Taking it in the morning is just something i do, and thoughts of suboxone consume very little of my day. I am aware that getting off is a risk, that is why I am trying to do it very slowly, and the right way. When I actually stop taking it, I am going to make sure it is during a relatively stress-free time of my life (probably summer). I’m going to make sure that Dr. H and my sponsor are aware, and my family. I’m going to have suboxone on hand, just in case the craving gets to be too much, just so that I could take it if i needed to. Also, steve told me that Dr. H might even prescribe me something to make the withdrawal less intense. If for some reason I find that thoughts of using consume my brain after getting off suboxone, who knows? I might get back on a very low dose to reduce craving. It is not worth losing my recovery over.
I am not by any means suggesting that being on suboxone is wrong, or isn’t truly being sober. I just know that for me personally, if i did not attempt to get off suboxone at least once, I would regret it. I need to see if I can do it. To some, the risk may not be worth it. My advice for anyone considering it would be to talk to Dr. H, and make sure you are doing it for you, not for anyone else. It would not be a good reason to try to get off because other people say you aren’t sober. You are the one who has to live with your decision, so make sure it is what you want.
sorry for rambling i was on a roll.
have a good night everyone!
JWS
February 13th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
I do understand what Dr H means that opiate addicts do not feel good without opiates. It is a valid theory,..and i’ve considered it. BUT…I am also prone to depression, I have been my whole life, and I know many addicts who are as well. I definitely feel less depressed since I have been on subs and since I quit using. I still get depressed though. It is still hard for me to get out of bed in the morning sometimes, I and I get sad a lot for no reason. It is not like the depression that surrounds my using. I have almost a year, and this has not gone away, I do see a counselor and take anti-depressants, all of which help, but i think it is something i will always deal with. I don’t think that being on my subs significantly changed my depression. It could have a little of course, but not enough to take it away. I think that getting off subs will temporarily make me more depressed. It will change the way i feel physically, which will of course make me . But I’m not sure if the subs are directly influencing my depression. Again, this is just what i think, it is not necessarily true, and i could be wrong.
It makes me wonder the answer to the question, which came first, the opiate addiction or the depression?
Any ideas?
JWS
February 13th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Another interesting question is “opiate responsive depression” which I’m fairly sure I see here and there. How much is/was depression that was helped by “using” and how much current “depression” comes from the “opiate deficiency”?
Dr H
February 13th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Jws. Honey, my silly opinion is depression or anxiety prob helped myself self medicate. Found not much help with depression meds an I realize there are millions of them and while. Trying this one then another u get more depressed. But I’m no dr lol. As for mk I believe from bottom of my heart that she’s being extremely careful, speaking with dr, and is doing this til she gets good job with more money. Mk, don’t let me speak for u, just what I hear from what u write. Money is tight with everyone these days, including ourselves. But jws, I love the fact at how concerned u are for mk. U r pretty awesome youself, always remember, k?
Rockin, getting very worried bout u please take care. Many of us care and love u. This is awful disease, specially alcohol. Hang in there dweetit, whereever u r hiding. Nite to all
February 14th, 2010 at 8:44 am
Drh. Hi! On the depression ?, I can honestly say that all my life I’ve been a little shy, older siblings that I could not hold my own against, just a little black rain cloud followings 20 miles behind me. Early on I learned to ridey bike, fa with dad , basketball… Just get up and not think bout the depression. I have. Been on few anti depressants and gave th up. I believe in many situations I believe you don’t need to run to dr for a make me well pill. I didn’t take anything til those damnigraines started, then after being careful for couple of years the beast was released, and yes, I believe something would have eventually started it. Don’t know if this is what u r talking bout at all. But it’s nice to have u on the blog but I still don’t know what vitamin deficency is. I’m getting it but not completely. Thanks
February 14th, 2010 at 10:54 am
HAPPY VALENTINES EVERYONE!!!!! HAVE A GREAT ONE!!!!
Dr.H, so, what now is ”opiate responsive depression?” Thanx
EVERYOne HAVE A SAFE DAY….xoxoxoxo
February 14th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Happy Valentines Day to all ya bloggers !!!
This is the best v’day of all. Funny, I said that about New Years, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and groundhog day. Because thanks to Steve, Dr H, subs, meetings, sponsor, program, and higher power~~~I am clean and sober for over 6 months. It takes effort for sure, but I love my new life, and new friends. I remember the first meeting I went to and there was this guy who was sober for 20 years. I said,”and you still come to meetings?” HAHAHAHAHA. How naive can a person be? All those corny slogans on the wall turned out to be not so cheesy after all. It really is one day at a time, and it really helps to let go let god.
I go to AA, NA, and OA, because my slippery little addict like to slither into every crevice. It knows that today I can’t do drugs, and there’s no booze in the house, and I have this itch !!!! So I zombie my way to the freezer. I am such a freakin addict !!! Compulsion is my middle name.
One serving of ice cream is not enough !!! I eat standing up in front of the fridge, using a serving spoon. Hagen Daus should require a triplicate.
Why can I not be obsessive about exercise, or eating enough fiber?
I know my sponsor says not to worry too much about this eating thing, but I need to stop, seriously, before I require a new wardrobe, and that unleashes my shopping addiction !!!!
My sweetie gives me flowers, not chocolates, bless him.
February 14th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Hi slodancing. Missed you. Miss everyone who hasn’t been around for awhile, or, with my absent minded mind, maybe I’ve missed you. Understand about the eating thing. Boy do I understand. You have a great day, EVERYDAY. Thinking about surgery after tomato season. When I went to plant my sweet peas yesterday, my limitations really showed their ugly head. Okay, I’ll leave ya all alone for awhile. Love ya all whenever and where ever. Happy Valentines, again.
February 14th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
to clarify about my earlier post…only about the first paragraph was meant for MK, the rest was just a tangent i went off on to discuss with the group, because i hear lots of people talking about it. have a good day everyone.
JWS
February 14th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
sorry jws if you thought i thought anything ”??’ about what you said to mk. I knew it was for her, and i was touched by the concern you have for her. all i meant to say was i’m sure she’s talking to the drs and steve, and she’s been so protective of her sobriety the past 3 years that she would be the perfect poster child. sorry if i offended you, didn’t intend to, honestly, just know from her posts that she really is great at making sure she stays sober, and was actually agreeing with you. often i think what i say is not usually understood as i meant it to come out of my mouth…and that is not the case at all. actually i was agreeing with you. however, again, sorry, and maybe this is why i should stay off the blog for awhile. maybe Uggg was a message to me. i get misinterpeted to much. (and we all have the right to have tangents as long as they don’t hurt someone sweet jws, and as far as i remember back, you never have)
February 14th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Oh princess, ugh was because I was frustrated, and I was goiin to post more but got distracted, then forgot. Happy valentines!
February 15th, 2010 at 6:45 am
Sorry ugh. But it’s true that what I write doesn’t come across well. I’m totally different in person. Hope u got unfrustrated…
February 15th, 2010 at 6:46 am
Shit, I meant to say L.
February 15th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Princess! Your being too critical of yourself, your writing is one of the reasons I’m always reading this blog. I love your style of writing and how open it is, I feel like I know you, and hope that Ill be able to be like that also!
Have a great Sunday!
February 15th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
i wasn’t offended princess, don’t worry. when i read your post i just thought that maybe i should make it clearer. don’t worry about it, ok?
JWS
February 15th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Sorry and thanks you two. I am to critcal and insecure, and I shouldn’t bring it to the blog. God bless you both.
February 15th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
hello everyone,
I believe it’s been a year or so since my last post in here. I seemed to have forgotten my old username so I made a new one. I know it suits my personality.
February 9th of this year marks my third year on suboxone and also 3 years sober. I never thought I would be undertheinfluenceofsuboxone for so long. And I dont see myself trying to stop in the near future. DR.H said if i wanted to, I could take suboxone until I am 85…. I might.
I no longer live in slo. For almost two years now.
I have been attending the two same meetings up here since i moved.
Still no sponser.
Honestly, if im on suboxone I feel like I dont need one. There’s no point in trying to get high, and alcohol is about the last thing on my mind. What I am really looking for, is strickly a suboxone meeting or support group for people like me taking suboxone. I have to say, after 3 years i love suboxone almost as much as I hate it.
I Started on 16 mg/day and now im down to about 2 or 3 mg/day. But I cant go any lower. And I still get extreemly tired, swollen, dehrdrated and blahhhhh…
Yeah im sober, but am I alive?????
Something is just not clicking for me.
With the 2 or 3 mg/day I have about a 12 hr window where I feel good. After about 12 hours, I start sweating and get extreemly, almost dizzy tired. If I take another dose, I do feel better, but that means I just fucked up tomorrow, because instead of waking up calm and collected like I should, I wake up feeling like I just took too much suboxone? A little is almost enough, and a little more is way to much.
I have been with my current employer for just under 2 years now. People are starting to see the real me. like a warewolf…. or something.. I feel great when i get to work and by the end of the day I am sweating and tired. They think I dont want to ahng out with them after work. Its not that I dont want to… its just that if I do, I will feel like shit. I have missed almost all “after work company events” (xmass party, dinners ect). People just think Im rude I guess. And I dont want them to know that I dont drink. It would make sense if you knew where i work, and what I do. I could almost get fired if they thought I didnt drink.
Anyway, thanks for reading. I wish everyone the best. And please! any advice is greatly appreciated.
Although I have failed to post anything recently. I still read the blog everyonce in a while, and its always refreshing.
February 15th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Hey creature! Try spliting up the 3 my and take half in morning, half in the afternoon. That way your not increasing your dose:)
February 15th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Hi again everyone, just got done working out and am beat but I told doc I would drop in and make myself available to anyone who had questions about tapering off and being off subs.
Some background on me, about this time last year(more like December) I could not afford subs so I decided on my own to do a fairly quick taper. If my memory serves me I had been on subs for about 6 month’s and did a 2 or 3 week taper. At the time I was taking one a day and tapered down to a half and then a quarter pill a day before I stopped. I can’t remember exactly but I did try to extend what I had left as long as I could. I do remember I would go 2 or three days not taking any subs and when withdrawals started to kick I would take a little bit to stave them off for a few more day. Anyways I was clear of subs for roughly 3 weeks before I reinstated the subs(with docs help).
The beginning of the clear time was like any other withdrawal but after a week of runny nose, Minimum sleep, restless legs, hot cold, shits all the fun that comes with any opiate withdrawal I realized I could put the subs on my insurance and therefore could afford them but decided to try and see if the symptoms would clear in the next week. As you might guess they did not and shortly after is when I emailed doc at 4 am monday. Doc was kind enough to get back to me around 6:15am and I was in the office at 8am. To say the least doc was there when I needed him the most.
What I can say about the time I was clear of subs was that most of the normal withdrawal symptoms where gone but something was not right, I could not sleep and was overall restless. Towards the end of this ordeal the lack of sleep and something else that I can not put a finger on were getting the best of me and thus I decided either see doc or see my street doc. I guess what I’m trying to say is that once the withdrawals were over there was still something my mind or body required. During that whole period I was working a 9-5 job as a manager so it was make or brake time for me in more than one way. So here I am a year later(on subs) smooth sailing and my only concern in life is should I start dating again. ladies?31/M/CA : )
It is a pretty good improvement over this time last year.
Good night!
P.S. I came from using oxy and morphine, towards the end was IV 300+mg of oxy a day if anyone was wondering.
February 15th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
hey creature try L’s advice, its what I do and seems to work the best. I was taking one a day around the same time everyday and would notice that I did feel better after taking my daily dose but also dragged later in the day. Now I treat subs like coffee. Some in the morning and some more no later than 4pm.
Good Night!
February 16th, 2010 at 1:39 am
Hi everyone, I know its been a while since my last entry. I have been reading this months blogs and I may have some words to offer. First of all I agree with the opinion that everyone is different in their treatment, how they will react and how they will use suboxone. First I am glad that overall everyone is doing well. I started using sub at about three tabs a day. after about two months of this I started dropping the dose slowly to about 1/2 a tab a day. I break it into four parts and take 1/4 in the morning and 1/4 late in the afternoon now. If I take much more, It makes me somewhat sleepy and tired. I start dragging. It feels much like It used to when I took too much methadone. And I feel fine right now. As far as withdrawal is concerned, let me tell you a little trouble I had with finances that is totally relevant to this. During my shift from public assistance to working again I found that I started having trouble keeping up my payments for the program and I ended up without a followup appointment with doc and steve so I ran out of my meds. I went nine days without sub and the withdrawal was in full swing. Now I wasn!t fearing this because the withdrawal was nothing like a full methadone withdrawal. Yes I got much of the same bad feelings but this time I feel it was manageable. Furthermore on the seventh day, I took one of my sons norco and that made me sick. I felt real sluggish, down like a true opioid would make a normal person. I definetly did not like the way I felt. And above all It didnt make me feel good. Yes, it took some of the withdrawal away, but in retrospect it wasnt worth it. Glad to say I am back on track and can say I have done field research on the subject. well anyway you know its late and will read and be back soon. Thanks to all, specially doc and steve everyone stick to your plan and it will be ok, I promise
February 16th, 2010 at 9:48 am
Steve- Are we meeting tonight in the office at 5:30, or do I have my weeks mixed up?
February 16th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Steve has been quiet lately. Maybe on vacation? Travel safe and blog us:)
Creature Wrote u yesterday but it flew to cyberspace I’m almost sure who u r. How ya been? I have a new name but can’t remember what it was. U sound good. Luck on what u r doing.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
RP- I had an appointment, and ya know, Steve was not there. Still bet he’s vacationing it, but not like him to check in. Maybe Dr.H can say if there’s a meeting tonight. Come to think of it, I’ve never seen DrH. so mild. He usually hops from the door onto a chair or something. Must be something in the air…spring??? Hope you all are well. ROCKIN…Please email me. Worried.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
I haven’t been on this blog in ages, so I thought it was about time to check in.
I went to ACYPAA (All California Young Peoples AA) convention this weekend in San Diego. Needless to say it was amazing! There was about 3000 of us there and it was great to be around so much recovery. Being 16, I have the “I’m too young not to be drinking/using complex” so it was great to meet younger people then myself who are sober and love it. It was probably exactly the push I need to get back into working on my own sobriety.
Hope everyone is doing good and staying clean
February 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Steve is tied up in a “family emergency” so the SLOARC Tuesday meeting for tonight is canceled. We’ll shoot for March 2nd.
WELCOME BACK creatureofmanyhabits! (COMH?) that’s a digital “mouthful” for non-typists like me!
Lots of good advice from the Suboxone folks, I’ll stay out of it.
AND….
I’d like to welcome back a celebrity.. PS3 ADDICT!!!!
Thanks, seriously. I enjoy hearing you opiate folks DESCRIBE what it feels like to be in the “in-between” place where you have finished “withdrawal” but crave opiates. JB told us a little about how it felt TWO YEARS after his last opiate!
And Alchy, sounds magical to see that many miracles all in one place. I’ve had the opportunity to sing a song with 4000 other SINGERS, and I’ve watched a chorus of 1000 perform, but it must be different.
Dr H
February 16th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
And thanks for staying with us RP even though your being awfully quiet!
Good to have you involved L!
And lookee here, slodancing joins the party.
Seriously, thank you for contributing to the blog. I was thinking creatureof…, you could use the BLOG here as your “Suboxone meeting” no?
Dr H
February 16th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Lastly….
MK,
Tell me more about how Suboxone helped your craving for … alcohol… right?
Dr H
February 16th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Rockinstuff and humbolt kid, would love to hear from you.
Randall -= wonderful to have you back in swing. Share with me how Suboxone differs from methadone….
Dr H
February 16th, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Oh Dr.H, you don’t write to much, and like I told you yesterday, its good to see you on the blog…
I myself am so stinking worried about rockinstuf myself. IF SHE CALLS, you may release my email and phone number to her. PLEASE. thank you.
Hope all is okay Steve and your ER. We will be praying for you.
Dr.H, I could speak about subox differs from other if you’d like.
The sun is out in Central Valley, and I feel HAPPY again. When there is no sun, it’s like being in a hole, and you get very sad.
MK- Was SO proud of you not drinking the wine. I’m not a wine drinker either, but the manager at Steamers sent us a drink on heart day. That was awkward. My husband doesn’t drink much, not even on poker nights, but has an ocasional beer or glass of wine. I didn’t want to offend this person, so I went to the bathroom when his back was turned and flushed it. Not one sip. I didn’t understand 2 years ago when I got in trouble for having 1/2 a drink a the horseraces. “But I don’t Drink” I told Dr.H. It’s taken me this long to finally figure out, “OHHHHH, addict will attach to something else.” And really, I’ve thought about this many times in the past two years.
Great to hear from so many of the oldbies. Welcome home, be safe and keep writing.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Dr H The suboxone seems to occupy my mind and keeps it focused on whatever task I am in the middle of. It keeps my brain from wandering and “what abouting…” not only drugs/alcohol but food too. Maybe it has to do with “pleasure center” stuff.
Jane I know its difficult when people we care about just dissappear and we fear they are in trouble. You have no control , they have their own path, you and a lot of others have kept the door open and expressed your care and concern now it is up to them. Oh and thanks for the “people of walmart” thing I was amused. The board sent me some form letter asking for more information- information I sent to them months ago- I get the feeling there is a lack of communication or just general stupidness in that office. Its so depressing when you call they “can’t take your call” they don’t answer e-mails it is a real joke. This week they are working 3 days. The notion of taking work home or staying late just dosen’t register with this group. They are like the “C” students of life. Just doing the bare minimum to not get fired. I don’t know how in the world you run a state that way. I see kids with lemonade stads with a better bussiness model. OK enough negativity.
MK
February 17th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
MK- You are a smart woman, and I know this is driving you nuts. But remember, GOVERNMENT, especially now, drives slowly when needed. I know in my heart and soul you’ll be doing what you love in no time; okay; longer than you like; but you’ve maintained sobriety for 3years plus, and I know you’ll wait and receive what you need. I admire medical profession so much, because I can’t look at a cut on myself. My daughter in law called me from work, 2 months pregnant with her new love’s baby, and as promised, she told me I’d be nana to each and everyone since she loved my son so much. She was queasy, working til this morning, and asked for Taco Bell. So, at 8 pm, I drove to Fresno, got her what she wanted, and of course some things that I thought she should have, and she introduced me to everyone as her mom. Then she said she had a 10 am appointment, and she called me on the way home to say the lima bean had a heart beat. Makes me happy to know I wasn’t just a “Mother in law.”
For everyone who turns their noses when Dr.H suggests AA meetings; just try. I’ve learned so much about myself, and one thing they say, is those who deny going, are the ones who need to go the most. Of course I didn’t go at first. And there’s a reason we turned to drug/alcohol, and those meetings will help us figure it out, and maybe, just maybe we will stay sober. They don’t hurt, and if you don’t like the group of people; hey, there are tons of meetings to go to. You can usually find them on the internet. Just a thought I wanted to share with you. Counseling helps also. Okay, I have to admit, I’ve LIED to Dr.H only once. YES, I do see a counselor. I just thought it was my private thing, and God, have I hit on things I didn’t know about myself, but always had a bad feeling about something. So, sorry Dr.H. Only lie, swear.
Finally got some wheels last night, so I can be on the go by myself again. They are tearing my car apart piece by piece to see why it took off with both feet on the brakes, had put it in nuetral,and pulled the parking brake. With my 8 year old grandgirl beside me. No, not a toyota, but made by toyota.
MK=I know I can’t help everyone. But when you care, you care. When I worry, I worry. I just keep the doors open, hoping they will walk back in. I’ve lost to much in the past two years, and I’ll hang tight onto anyone who is still alive. I cannot, literally, take another funeral. Truly, my husband and I were going to one every 2 weeks since last spring. And although I’m a Christian, I still see my son, and now my brother, lying there…some of my problems, I know. Everyone have a great day.
February 17th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I’m being cremated.
February 18th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Question to put out there. I was cleaning house today, and finally made it into the poker room and bar. As dusting the bottles and glasses, I thought, should an addict have this in their homes? I like Norcos, and drinkings never been a big thing to me. What do you all think? Just a discussion…Thanks
February 19th, 2010 at 10:53 am
Princess- nothing wrong with caring- just don’t care yourself to death
MK
February 19th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
MK, thanks for the worry, but I’m not caring myself to death. I’m just following my insticts. Gotta be me. But I do appreciate your concern. I won’t tip my boat, promise. And all I did was put a question out there to see if we could get people to respond to my idea. Oh well, lets just see roll with it. I’ll try to be less hovering… Love to all,
February 19th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Remember P.S. it’s not the substance it’s our relationship to it that’s the problem, so if it doesn’t bother you let it be.
Strat
February 19th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Friends.
Not a lot of time at the moment but it is time to say that our good friend and compatriot is not doing well. Major relapse and at this writing unclear if he will return to the land of the sober!
He has helped all of you, and let us send him prayers and good thoughts for a speedy return to the land of the living.
I am extremely sorry if this has ANY negative impact upon anyone’s sobriety, it is a wake up call to all, one is NEVER SAFE from the “other voice”.
Sorry to be blunt and forthright but it is important for everyone to stay safe.
More to follow.
Dr H
February 19th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Doc., If there’s anything I can do to help please don’t hesitate to ask. My thougths and prayers are going out to all concerned.
February 20th, 2010 at 7:59 am
i ran into someone the other day, and felt something was up.
too bad - he was an inspiration to all.
he’ll be back - inshalah
February 20th, 2010 at 8:52 am
i wonder if it was the
“some absolutely AWESOME chocolate fudge cookies that should be a “controlled Substance”
that became the new gateway drug back?
just kidding…keep comin’ back
we’ll be here
February 20th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Morning,
I’ve been thinking (I know, know) this is rather disturbing news because our friend was such a large part of our early sobriety. He was there with understanding and compassion when I had little of it for myself, he was the been there done that guy who had the answers to my silly ass questions and helped me thought my dark fearful times when I needed it most. But, and this may sound harsh, he is not my sobriety, I was blessed that he gave me the tools that I needed to handle news like this and if possible to help him in return. But we must remember our sobriety is contingent on our spiritual condition, not on others sobriety and emotional conditions, we must stay strong in our sobriety so when the time comes we can help those in need (are you listening P.S.) the Doc. I’m sure will let us know, when he can, when and if we can help so keep strong and think good thoughts. End of Lecture.
Strat.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Knew my instinct was more than a family emergency. we will pray for you, and like strat said, if there is anything we can do, we’ll be there. i’ll drive from fresno in one hour. i know you are in good hands with doc. you are a good person and helped us so much, so let us help you. I’m praying, (actually already have been) that you get control very soon again. just proves that like cancer, this disease can seem to be gone or silent, then pops up like a weed. its a horrible disease. but friend, you have fought it, and will again. you all know i’m a christian, and believe in prayer, because god does help the drs who help us. and he is holding our friend now. get better, and thank you for letting drh let us know. remember, god will take care, with you helping him. my heart is with yours…
Strat-what are you saying to me? that i care to much? I don’t completely understand
February 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Just take care of your sobriety so you can help others ,don’t give your strengh away in worry.
February 20th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Thanks Strat, but it’s my nature to worry. Always has been, and don’t know if I can change. But I do appreciate your concern. You are a sweet person.
Dr. H This person could never give me ”negitive impact on our sobriety.” As you have taught us, we are all in charge of our own sobriety. We are all just concerned. It would be like you turning from bouncy ole Tigger to sad ole Eyore. Thanks for your concern about all of us. I’m also concerned about YOU, because when I left last Monday, I told my husband there was some bouncy gonce, and sadness in your eyes. I’ve said it once, twice and always will say it…God will take care…God bless everyone today and always…
February 20th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Odd really, to look into the eyes of the ADDICT, knowing the person is “in there”, yet powerless without their willingness and honesty.
That’s what it takes for folks to make it into the office, willingness and honesty.
Dr H
February 20th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
I saw our friend at Vons and knew in my gut there was something wrong- god damn it to hell-this is very humbling and powerful for me. I am very sad
mk
February 20th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
MK, I know we are all sad. I frightens me when Dr.H said ”and it’s unclear if he will return to the land of the sober”. But my money is on this particular person, truly. He’s done it before, and will again. Like I said, when I read DrH’s ”family emergency”, my gut also said, ‘yea,right.’ I think woman are more into their gut feeling and intuitions. So,, our friend, I know you are probably reading the blog, and know that we care. And want the best for you. And don’t worry, because we only think MORE of you if you come back to the land of the sober. We will always love you. youve been always kind to us, and like karma, it will come back to you 10 fold. We still need you helping us, but take care of yourself fiirst. God will take care, but just let us know how you are, a big request, I know, but it wouldbe nice to hear from you . take care. remember how many are pulling for you.
DrH. Iam thinking of you also, because I know this person is a good friend to you more than anyone. This is what the blog is for, and I believe why you started it. To HELP, SHARE, and I think you need us right now just as much as we’ve needed you before and each other.
Take care to all..
February 21st, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Everyone is quiet…sad.. Anyone want to share thoughts?
February 21st, 2010 at 7:44 pm
My thougts are with the Doc. Losing a co-worker is one thing but this, I’m sure is very personel. This is his friend and colleague. I’m pretty sure neither are feeling good about the situation at present. I can only pray that pride and shame do not keep our friend from being honest with him self and except the love that will be awaiting upon his return.
me
February 21st, 2010 at 10:32 pm
missing our friend…ever so much
if you ever read this, you mean so much to me. my thoughts and prayers are with you. <3
JWS
February 21st, 2010 at 11:55 pm
Strat- You and I often think so much alike. I wrote Dr. last night and again today, letting him know that I,we, were thinking of him also, that we knew he was hurting also. Like I said, when I saw him last Monday, I could see something in Doc’s eyes, but I wouldn’t ask. And he wouldn’t have said anything. You can hear and feel the pain in his blog this weekend, and I think that says it all.
JWS- I’ve told you before, how much I love and admire you. You are wise and way beyond your years. You ”get” so many things already, things I don’t think I understood til I was 40. I know you are missing Steve, we all are, but know that we are here with you.
Buddy, I hope you still log on and read the blog. One of the last things you wrote me was, “we are addicts are we not?” Dear friend, if we must face it as patients, then you surly understand how hard it is when we slide down that slippy hill. So in turn, we understand how you fill. In terms. But Dr, you, and so many around us, and the people on the blog reach out, and if we are smart and wise, we start climbing to the top again. This isn’t any different because you worked for Dr.H. An addict is an addict, and we carry the fact that we may relapse at anytime. Don’t let the fact that you are a great example and counselor to us think that we feel any different about your slip, than you would have for us. You know how to come back, what the steps of recovery are…and no one thinks anything of you except full of love. Also a lot of depression? because this almost feels like we’ve lost you. Pride is a terrible thing. It gets in the way of life, and destroys the inside of your soul, letting the dark in and winning. There isn’t anyone on this blog, and I know especially Doc, who wouldn’t come, hold you up, help you if you called.
My prayers are with you, with Doc and the office, and all on the blog. Talk to us Steve. We love you…Love to all on the blog, J (Yes Strat, JWS, MK…it is indeed a sad time. Stay safe and sober.)
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:58 pm
any word on our friend?
are you there?
it’s ok, we’re here when you’re ready.
take care….
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Bup,
I haven’t heard anything. Much like waiting in a room at the hospital to see how surgery went. And while you wait, you clean house, pay bills, go to meetings, pray, cook dinner, watch the news, start the next day again. Like MK and Strat said, we still need to concentrate on our sobriety. How are you doing Bup? I know what they say is true, but it sure would be nice to hear something. Watched the news last night, and it was about something a Dr in Fresno is doing. Not knee replacement, but much like implants in the knee. Going to make an appointment with him. Doesn’t hurt to hear what he has to say. MK, have you heard anything about this ? So, that’s my news. You take care Bup. And everyone else.
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:39 am
Hi Everyone! it’s been a while since i blogged. So sorry to hear about our friend!! Sorry for you too Senior doc! It must be hard for you on several different levels.
Hope he is back soon!!! Hope he isn’t thinking how I did and was afraid to come back, shame, not wanting to raise hand at meeting. The first week or 2 is rough, not sleeping, etc. But that goes away/
BUT… everyone was so happy i was back and so welcoming and supportive!! It was very touching, especially since meetings and certain people started to annoy me before I relapsed.
Someone was talking bout cutting back on subs.. I did that too.
I don’y wanna be always on them, esp since i go to mtgs now and fully involved in my recovery/ I am down to “crumbs?” unsure of the dosage but i start withdrawals if i stop completely and I HATE that!!!
take care everyone, hurry back Steve~~
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:31 am
Jr. M.D.- Just woke up- have had killer bronchitis, I’m sure a gift from one of my Grandgirls! The youngest (and you must have a good sense of humor and strong stomach to read this) is so sweet, but hasn’t gotten used to using a tissue to blow her nose. So, she runs to the bathroom, sits on the toilet without pulling her pants down, you know, I might not notice that she’s trying to blow her nose and doesn’t have to tinkle. She takes about one little sheet of TP, blows and blows, and soon its in her hands and running down her little face. I’ll go in by then, and she doesn’t want me to see her. But, after grabbing some babywipes, and cleaning her face, hands and whatever, she’s a grateful little fluff of joy, but usually, USUALLY, she will get some in her hair, and we fondly call it Kayla Hair Gel. She laughs, and lets me wash it out. She, we all aren’t screwed on completely right. We are always a work in progress. But Jr. MD, you sound pretty well. Yes, I think ALL of us are having hard times, and I know I’ve thought,and even wrote to Dr.H about how this must be hard on him also, but he’s loved as well… As for our friend, I would HOPE that there’d be no shame. He’s talked to us, and hopefully he realizes that he’s our friend as well, and shame has nothing to do, nor does it belong in this group of ours.
God be with all today. Hope the sun pours on your life and into your heart and soul, and have a safe and sober one. I have not been sleeping well lately, and I’ve been looking at my husbands wine collections. Hummm, don’t like to drink, who would know? Oh, I would. sO, throw that stupid thought out. Maybe it’s the bronchitis. xoxoxox to all…and to DrH, have a day full of humor, good thoughts.
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
No clear signs, no bad news, just no news.
Someone who has never met our friend and has never met me or been to the office had the comment that she thought the folks here on the blog were looking to me for guidance or an answer.
What do you think?
I have no answers, and the take home message is to respect your enemy, they are smarter and stronger and will wait forever for the “right time” to take you down.
Dr H
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Correction, just received new text from buddy, is “okay” but out of town. We’ll hope for his return.
Dr H
February 23rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Not guidance or an answer, just information when and if you get it would be nice. Like the above.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:04 am
In agreeance with Strat. Am sad. But this won’t make me fall, especially since I know to be very careful about where I step. Our friend has been through this before. Think he’ll make the right decisions. I think we’d all want to know if you hear anything. Which you did. Other than that, I think we all saw the deep friendship, and worry about you also. Both of you on our “CARE” radar. Lots of prayers. So many prayers for everyone. Amen.
February 24th, 2010 at 9:24 am
You know this passage from the Big Book pretty much sums up the situation.
“The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.”
February 24th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
I was also affected by this news but know the man and feel ok. I believe it is something we will all deal with at some time. Our 16th president, Mr. Lincoln was a man who suffered many problems not the least of which was major depression. Also many times dropping back into deep depression, he found his way out and became one of the greatest men of our time. Not that I am comparing anyone we know to Lincoln, but he is a great man for the things he’s done for us. And I pray for him too Thank you Steve and Doc
February 24th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Hi, KC here. I’m a relatively new blogger. Has anyone experienced help with alcohol cravings with use of suboxone? Dr H suggested MK might have some knowledge about this. Thanks!
February 24th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Strat and Randal. well said, and AMEN for our friend. MAYBE, this is a way for him to NOT have buttons pushed? What I learned from him was patience, acceptance, and understanding. Something we all need to give and respect his for now. He knows where we are…
KC No can help, sorry…but lots of luck…
February 24th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
kc,
i’m an alcoholic/addict
i attend both aa and na - i’m bi-steptual
(and today the va fuckin’ a)
anyway, yes sub has helped with alcohol.
when i first started sub i also quit drinking.
for me the combo alcohol/opiate was the ultimate cocktail.
being free from the burden of opiates helped immensely with abstinence from alcohol.
did it stop alcohol cravings?
no, but without the ‘cocktail’ i was able to just say no.
i did relapse on alcohol briefly,
but without my cocktail the real euphoria just wasn’t there.
so, yes, knowing that it’s not the same has helped remove the obsession for me but not the cravings.
make sense?
if not - it will
just remember that sub is only a part of your recovery.
get into a complete program of recovery.
it is the only way.
ps: did i say only?
February 24th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
touched base with our friend through text message- he says he is OK
February 24th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
I think it is unfair and probably intimidating and uncomfortable to dwell on the wellness status of others.
There are more than one of our members absent and struggling. I don’t know how to acknowledge difficulties yet not be gossiping and cruel.
I think now the news is out, we should leave specifics and news to the persons themselves.
I’m considering taking the majority of this off the archives and leave it at that. We hope and pray and share our own struggles and let others choose to join or not without judgment or pressure.
I don’t feel I have expressed my thoughts well, but does it make sense? I would feel uncomfortable with my issues being belabored in a public forum, yet I felt it was important to be clear to all those affected what was going on.
Dr H
February 25th, 2010 at 5:20 am
Think so Dr.H. I still wonder how Rockinstuff is doing…no word. Several of our friends stop blogging, then pop up again. Do what ya have to do. There’s a whole piss pot of people who need help, and seems we are concentrating on one.
I believe we are so concerned about this person because we have learned to love him like we have everyone in the office. Dr., Rick, Patty (whom I haven’t seen latetly, Chris….ect. It’s become to very personal. And I haven’t heard from our friend, thinking, maybe he didn’t want to counsel me, but is letting everyone else know where and how he is. And I care just as much. Dr. is right. EVErYONE needs this much help and concern, and when we hear, we will hear. I wrote myself, stating maybe staying out of his way is helping him NOT to get his buttons pushed, and of all the things he’s taught us, we need to respect his wishes and let him recovery on his own terms. Something he needs to do on his own. He knows we love him, care for him, and certainly knows how to get on the blog. Honestly, we haven’t heard from rocking longer than our friend, and as I was told by a friend,
We cannot let the others out there who need us, feel as though we only are caring for one person. That would be lonely, would it not? and like our friend told me, “We are addicts, true? Are we not?” I think he was trying to say something at the time. He’ll be back. But I think Doc is right. so many fish, so little time. Our friend will come home when ready, and he knows it will be to welcoming arms. Nuff said for me tonight… xoxo to all…
February 25th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Morning All,
You know Doc. it is your blog and of course you can do anything you want with it. But I think you are giving way to much power to this media, if our friend is spending any time reading this then he is reading statements of caring about a situation that is near and dear to us all sobriety and relapse. If there is anybody out there using this for entertainment and vicarious enjoyment that cannot be stopped on a public forum. You can of course delete history but it won’t change our feelings about the individual in question. This probably doesn’t help your decision and it’s none my business really but I’ve been thinking about this since last night when I read your post.
Strat
February 25th, 2010 at 8:20 am
You touch on my point though Strat.
What is caring concern and what is “vicarious enjoyment” or my word, “gossip”?
I tried to imagine myself in the shoes of others and reading and I had mixed feelings.
I’m not saying anything here has been inappropriate, yet I have even wondered if it was appropriate for me to “make an announcement”, and as you all might suspect I have a lot of mixed feelings.
It seems like it’s time to move forward with the stream and let the event sit.
More thoughts in the NEW comments area!
Dr H