January 2010 - Archived Do NOT Post Here
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January 1st, 2010 at 12:15 am
Thanks Bupster! You’re story of looking down at that third glass of champagne and thinking “I’d like another 30 of these!” then catching yourself negotiating with your addict and putting down the glass is legendary!
It seemed to be a story of a “moment of clarity” and it has helped lots of other patients understand how the disease works, and how substituting one drug (alcohol) for another (opiates) doesn’t work out so well.
Steve and I call it “whack-a mole”, when you whack down one, another pops up.
Happy safe and sane New Years to everyone, I hope you get to blow past a sobriety checkpoint and thumb your nose at them!
Dr H
January 3rd, 2010 at 3:30 pm
NEXT SLOARC GROUP SESSION: Tues. Jan. 5th, 5:30pm at the office!!
Hope to see many of you there…
Steve–out
January 4th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
DOES ANYONE ELSE FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GLORIFIED DRUG DEALERS? mY SITIUSTION IS THAT I’M UNEMPLOYED, THE MAITANANCE FEES AND PILLS IS JUST TOO MUCH, WE HAVE 3 CHILDREN TO FEED, CLOTHE, ETC. SO LAST WEEK I DECIDED ENOUGH, AND AM NOW ON DAY 6 WITH NO SUBS, AND I FEEL LIKE I M DYING. I CALLED AND TOLD THEM THAT IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS I PLAN ON CATCHING UP MY BILL, BEFORE IT ROLLED OVER AGAIN. SOOOOO, BASICALLY, UNTIL THEIR CAUGHT UP, IM ON MY OWN. I BELIEVE IF THEY ‘CARED’ SO MUCH, THEY COULD HELP ME TODAY, ( AS I AM GOING THRU SEVER WITHDRAWEL) AND I WOULD STILL CATCH UP MY PAYMNTS. BUT…. MIGHTY DOLLAR COMES FIRST.
January 5th, 2010 at 9:29 am
I’m confused first you say enough is enough and I’m done with this program and now the withdrawals start and now you vilify them for not being compassionate and giving you the drugs your body craves, correct? I sympathies with you in your situation but sloarc did not make you an addict and before you came to sloarc I’m sure you would have found the money for your drugs any way you could have. It is precisely the fact that the folks at sloarc are compassionate that you expect them to do something for you. Your dealer might have fronted you drugs but I’m sure that he wouldn’t let you get away with floating too much credit. Also this is the first time that you’ve been on the blog and it is to complain that things are not going your way that leads me to believe that you’re also not doing all you can in regards to the rest of the program. Are you going to meetings using the blog and doing the things the Doc suggests for recovery? It sounds as if you made decisions and then are not happy with the results. If I’m wrong I beg your forgiveness.
Strat
Half measures availed us nothing.
January 5th, 2010 at 10:40 am
You know the more I think about the post by LORI the more I’m inclined to think that people who go to Sloarc to just get a prescription for Suboxone an not work the rest of the program as prescribed by Steve and the Doc (and I’m not implying this is LORI’s case) are treating Sloarc as drug dealers and would have a skewed opinion of what Sloarc is there for. Suboxone is only one small part of the recovery process. The true program is going out and doing Twelve Step Programs to take care of the underlying issue that created the Addiction in the first place.
Strat
January 5th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Lori Lori Lori- lets talk babe- I get it you are sick, and nobody who is sick is rational, but the whole accountability thing is lacking here. While Dr H and his staff are caring individuals they have a bussiness to run. This is the problem with health care- it is not accessible to everyone- only those who can pay for it. It may not be right but it is what it is. This is what all the brew ha ha is in Washington. Our health care system is a joke and needs to be overhauled- because when everyone has access to health care we all benefit. OK i’m going to put away my soapbox for now
MK
p.s. still nothing from Sacramento(assholes- 105 days)
January 5th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Sloarc is the first step.. then you gain strength and have to work the Program for yourself. You’ll find help there also. This is something YOU have to do for yourself. Like Strat said, we were addicts before, and will be always, but we can stop it.
And it’s true. People you were getting high dollars for the pills from, did they take credit? Think not, and somehow the money came from somewhere…draining your savings…not paying bills…the money was always there. Yes, Dr.H and Steve WANT to help, but it’s not their obligation to do it for free. Don’t shoot the people helping you. Have you gone to 12 step meetings? or have a sponsor? I agree with Strat…there’s always an underlying problem that started you to use in the first place.
January 5th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Ratdog here, I guess sympathy here is in the dictionary between shit and syphllis huh stratman? I remember how great I felt before the Subs and I am pretty grateful for how this all went down. Even though I have the means and insurance, the way the economy is, it’s still a hard nut to crack but I do. I don’t know what I,d do if I was in this ladys truck. But alittle remembering on my part I wish I could help Ratdog Oh Happy New Year
January 5th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Hi MK- we were blogging at the same time. Like what you wrote. I does feel like crap when you are in withdrawls, but I always took it out on myself. I’d say I had a migraine, go to bed, sweat it out til the next refill. Still haven’t heard from Sacramento? Holidays maybe? Fingers crossed.
January 5th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Hey Rat Dog.
If you read my first post I stated in fact that I did in fact sympathize with her but felt she was, as MK so deftly put it, not being accountable for the situation at hand. Have you ever thought about what you would do if something changed in your life and you could no longer afford Sloarc? I have and it does not include blaming Sloarc for my predicament. I also think there’s more going on hear than meets the eye so to speak.
It’s a shame that any body needs to withdraw from drugs it’s not a pleasant experience, but when I did a I took responsibility for how and why I got there it was not something or somebody else’s problem.
Strat.
January 5th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
I do feel the need to add this to my statement: opiate withdrawl won’t kill you- you may wish it would but it won’t. Withdrawl from alcohol or benzos can- in Loris case I am assuming it is a matter of comfort not saftey- no physican would refuse treatment of someone who is in danger this clearly is not the case- it just sucks!
MK
January 5th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
I’ve gone back and reread through my posts from earlier today and realize that the tone was less than caring and generous. I still stand by the main points but I apologize for sounding like a self righteous prig.
Strat
January 6th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Hi Everyone,
This is my first time blogging on this site, I am not currently a patient but am considering it. I am currently a patient at Aegis methadone clinic, all is going ok there but I just recently heard about Suboxone and never knew there were other options. Has anyone gone from methadone to suboxone? Please share your experience with me and with how you feel about SLOARC….I appreciate all advice and comments..
Thanks
January 6th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Hi Lizzy and welcome, suboxone saved my f…..ing life. I went to inpatient detox and it was given to me by the MD there and was continued by Dr Howalt when I was discharged. I tried many times to stop (Vicodin) but the withdrawls were so wicked- I just couldn’t stand it. I reccommend it- I haven’t taken methadone though- I imagine the physicians can give you a better idea what your experience might be. Good luck
MK
January 6th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Hi Lizzy,
Was using Hydromophone and Morphine for years and of course my life turned to shit found Doc H. through my counselor, was prescribed Suboxone and like M.K. says it saved my life. The stuff works as advertised.
Strat
January 6th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Lizzy. Went to dr h for subox and it works miracle in your life. Couple years can change your health and back to dr h for help. I had become imobile and what to do. Go back on opiates Dr h found a better option. I’m not the normal but fighting my addiction as well. If u aren’t in pain try the subox. Good luck. Mk. What if u call Sacramento. I can’t wait tO throw u a party.
January 6th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Lizzy-
I took oxycontin along with other drugs on a daily basis. Suboxone allowed me to step away from my drug of choice, without being sick, so that i could start building my recovery. Suboxone can be very beneficial, but if you add a program of recovery to that, the results can be amazing. I have been sober for 10 months now. I have heard that there are a lot of disadvantages to methadone. Suboxone takes care of a lot of these, and you don’t have to get up in the morning and go to the clinic to get it. I hope this helps!
JWS
January 6th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
True recovery involves work!! both mentally and physically. I just truly believe Lori that you cannot put a $ on sobriety because a zillion dollars will never be as valuable as your, mine, and our sobriety!!!!!!! Taking that step to admit we have a problem (ADDICTS) is where the decision,( true decision) to admit we are powerless over this disease so we must commit to doing all factors (WORK) that can help us keep our disease in check. Dr.H and Steve obviously know how to make their way work. Too many addicts have maintained their sobriety by following a true recovery program. Which i do not think one drug dealer would give a shit about our health and lives they are the ones who only care about the mighty dollar. I truly believe SLOARC is an awesome caring and sincere place to start on the journey of sobriety!! So to everyone please keep coming back because IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!!!!! WE deserve it!!! Goodnight to all –CMB
January 7th, 2010 at 12:25 am
Congrats jws on your 10 month recovery
little gloomy in the valley. Mk- sure u remember those days of no sun, an 41 degrees at night which hops to an Amazing 47 in the afternoon. Didn’t feel like hitting my meeting tonight but did and felt better for it. There is 1 at our church mon nites and I’ve resisted going. Finally said the heck to it and have started going to that one again. Much closer and u know just bout everyone there.
Don’t know if u guys get our news but for two weeks there is a very desparate addict hitting walgreens and vons stores 4 oxy or metadone and he’s armed. Last nite he hit 3 stores before getting anything. Police say give it to him since he says he’s armed. Me, I don’t think he’s armed but don’t rant anyone getting hurt or taking chances. Hope they catch him soon and that he gets help. My opinion. Take cae all.
January 7th, 2010 at 11:35 am
When has the last time doc talked to anyone of you about getting off the sub?
Besides the money issues, I just wanted to have an end in sight. An END
, not a tradeoff. Subs have been great, but I don’t want to spend the rest of my life taking it.
January 7th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Thanks everyone for keeping the blog alive… Steve here…….In response to “L” and discontinuing the use of Suboxone, I usually tell folks to let us know if they decide to stop, i.e., have a plan, and we will help them do that….Everyone is a bit different in how they feel about this subject, but if you view addiction as a disease, which is the view of the informed world; the genetic link has certainly been proven along with many other points, then it’s like a diabetic deciding to stop their insulin, or a person with high blood pressure saying “ENOUGH” to their medications…
I know it’s hard to see it that way, since society has told us for 100’s of years that addicts/alcoholics like myself, are just deadbeat, lazy folks, and use and drink because it’s so much fun…We all know that is not true…I didn’t see ANY OF YOU having fun when you came to SLOARC for help…
The problem Doc and I see ALL THE TIME is that when addicts stop taking Suboxone, 90% or MORE relapse back to their drug of choice…I think this is due to an “opiate deficiency” if you will….So Suboxone fills the need for opiates without impairing you.. When patients do decide they want to stop Suboxone, I usually go over all the other aspects of their recovery program…If you have a solid support system within AA/NA including a sponsor and are active in service as well, you have a MUCH better chance of living a normal life without Suboxone…
Using drugs is just one symptom of the disease of addiction. There are many other problems that need to be addressed to live a peaceful, serene, drug-free life…
I truly want to see ALL OF YOU DO WELL, be it with or without Suboxone, or our program…..
I think I can speak for our entire staff at the office that we care about you as “people” not just “customers”….I continue to take phone calls and try to help people out, long after they have left our program…Partially because I do care about you and partially because it helps ME stay clean and sober….
Keep up the good dialogue everyone!
Next SLOARC Group Session: Tuesday, Jan. 19th, 5:30pm…
Steve–out
January 8th, 2010 at 9:19 am
Hey L
As a matter of fact the Doc and I discussed just that when I was in last, my decision was not to pursue it at this time (don’t what to risk what I’ve gained) so yes it does happen L .
I don’t believe that sloarc is creating costumer in perpetuity.
Strat
January 8th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Hey everyone…Lizzy again…thank u to everyone who shared their stories with me, I guess what I am thinking right now is that I have been with the methadone clinic for so long well 10mo…but I know it would be hard for me to tell them I am leaving and I worry about the change…but I have to do what is best for me and I have been doing alot of research on suboxone and I can see that it is physically a better choice for your body….I am waiting on a tax return to start the program, if decided, so I have a couple of weeks to decide..next question: is anyone on medi-cal and if so do you know if they pay for the Rx for sub?
January 8th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Hi L how are you feeling? any relief yet? sorry you have to go through this it really is awful. I used to feel exactly like you do. I stopped taking my suboxone for three months- I didn’t relapse but I was consumed with cravings- I think of it like a diabetic thinks of insulin- I need it to treat my disease. It is an extra shield against the ever watchful predator-addiction. I have talked about stopping with the doc a number of times. Believe me he isn’t just doing this to make money and keep people strung out- he could be making far more money and less aggrivation practicing internal medicine-heck he even works at the jail- and you know the bunch there are not an easy group- so I get why you feel this way- I went through a similar phase. I hope you get some relief soon.
MK
January 8th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Lizzy- medi-cal dosen’t pay for suboxone but there is a county program where you can get some for a couple weeks- you might look into that- it isn’t much- also try asking for generic buprenorphine at your pharmacy its out there-
January 8th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
OK last one: I heard from Sacramento yesterday- they granted my petition for reinstatement effective 1-7-10. Yea me- after 3 years of hell I finally earned the right to practice my profession once again. It really is a miracle, treatment, suboxone , meetings, the whole thing, it works if you work it.
MK
January 8th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Yea, and congratulations MK! Had no doubt. Government just runs slow. But now you can relax, get back to life while breathing. Very, very happy for you.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Lizzy- Do what is best for you. I swear by Dr. H, drive 2-3 hrs to see him, he’s the best around, bar none. He’ll talk to you, and I don’t mean 3-5 minutes carved out for you. Til you get it and decide. Luck sweetie.
L- If I didn’t make the trips to DrH and talk with Steve, I’d relapse in a oakie minute. I journal. Have for the past 20 years, and my best friend is to dispose of them at my dimise. HOWEVER, went back and read what I wrote when I was in withdrawl. “God, if You love me take away the pain, God, just let me die” (I didn’t want to die. I just felt like it) I don’t think any addict will ever forget the feeling of withdrawl. The nervousness, stomach starts to churn, yawning, limbs moving constantly, hot, cold, sweaty, cold, hot, back and forth to the bathroom, again and again til you don’t think there’s anything left inside of you, and that you believe you won’t live another minute. Subox stops this. Could not believe it when Doc gave it to me in the office. I”ve prayed two time for myself in my lifetime. (Okay, probably more) One was to get rid of the migraines I was bombed with….Amerge was invented and in the past 10 years? I’ve had 2 that I couldn’t get rid of. One was last week in Tahoe, but think it was the altitude. Second was to get off norcos. Heard about suboxone from a friend, looked on computer, found Dr.H who sounded the best to go to for myself, and went. If I had gone to a doctor in the valley that gets you off then lets you hang, I’d be back taking the norcos everyday. I’d rather be on a good course than a bad one. Like MK says, it works, only if you work at it. Just my thoughts.
January 8th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Congratulations M.K.
I think you guys are confusing Lizzy with L?
Strat
January 8th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Stratman, I was just wondering how you thought I wasn’t be accountabalitle
I stareded
the sub, and they were wonderful , I think that more than anything, it got be out of the habit of popping everyday. I read ALL the blogs,even went to one one steves meeting and was thoroughly embarassed. Also, I had once ask Steve about a time line to stop takin the subs, and it just seemed to be a debate about ” why would I want to” .and MK,I am very awear about the cost of running a bussiness,I have run several myself. But it hit home when I had to post on craiglist for Xmas for my kids. Made me realize what’s more important. My sUBs, or my kids.
Iplan on still seeing Steve , and we think we found a family church to attend
Thank you doc, and u especially steve
January 8th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
L it appeared to me after reading your post that you we’re laying the cause of your suffering at the feet of the folks at Sloarc. Do you go to A/A or N/A meetings? Are you addressing your addiction? If you could stop taking suboxone tomorrow would you have the strong foundation that’s needed to live in a sober world? Those are only questions you can answer and be accountable for, those were the points I was trying to make. I sympathize with you on your economic condition but there’s a lot we can do for ourselves (like A/A ) that doesn’t cost a dime. Like I said before I apologies if I’m wrong.
Strat
January 8th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Hell, just read back thtrought the posts I think I’m losing it. Disregard my statment about confusing Lizzy with L. It’s been along day
Strat
January 8th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
Thanks for all the involvement folks!!
I’ll stay out of the controversy as to whether or not I’m a nice guy. I figure it’s not even a little bit “my” decision!
As Popeye said…. “I yam what I am.”
Here’s a new question, good one for Steve and I to settle on one of our long drives.
If someone is an alcoholic are they “disabled” as in should be supported by society or another person.
If someone can’t work because the can’t stop drinking should they be considered disabled?
Should someone who is intellectually physically capable of working but can’t work because they can’t stop drinking get spousal support based on their employability or support based on their disability?
I’m forming an opinion but it’s hard work and I’ll keep it to myself for the moment.
Dr H
If
January 8th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Good one Dr.H. If my legs hurt and I cant work, am I disabled? Suppose so, but I choose to do for myself. As for alcoholics, need to think about that one. Hard being an addict and consider this question. Why just alcoholics? Why not drug addicts? Would make for an interesting long drive though…Actually I am pretty sure how I feel, but am also keeping quiet. I’ve always believed that lets HELP someone, but only to get back on their feet. Oh what a wishy washy I am…
January 9th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Interesting conundrum Doc I guess if the medical profession is to call Addiction in all its forms a disease then in a black and white world yes you would have to say that society should treat addicts as they do all disabled patients, but, here comes the but, is not addiction a rather self inflected disease? Could not society then force the Alcoholic to take antabuse and addicts to take suboxone? And that would effectively put them in Recovery (but not cured) this is getting cyclic. I’m typing out loud here. Every fiber in my being wants to say no it is not an addicts place to claim disability payments and alimony. But you can’t use the term disease to describe yourself and then deny others that same right. The more I think about this the worse it gets. The problem is that you can’t use shades of gray in the argument because it spirals out of control. So, even though I don’t want to say yes I guess you’d have to allow addicts that right. EEEKS
Strat
January 9th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Ha ha ha…EEKS is right Strat! Love that comment. Many years ago there was a VERY SHORT period of time that California DID allow alcoholics to claim disability benefits. It did not go well, as you might imagine. The system was abused horribly, as is the current system for disability payments. Anytime our State or government offers a free paycheck, there will be folks there to collect it who really don’t qualify. The controversy has long been going on as far as what qualifies as a “mental disability”. Physical stuff is much easier. I’m unable to walk and am in a wheelchair for life. And then we have, “I just can’t seem to find the energy to get out of bed in the morning to hold a job” ie. clinical depression. BOTH are legitimate disabilities and I’m glad our system attempts to help both groups out. It’s easy to see how the “depression” card could be misused though.
Another aspect that must be considered is; if your legs have been amputated, you are NOT going to grow new ones! (You AA folks might have heard that somewhere! Ha ha..) If you are an alcoholic/addict there are PROVEN methods to arrest your disease and KEEP it in remission, therefore ALLOWING you to proceed with life (and work) in a somewhat normal fashion. So then that brings “personal choice” into the arena. WHEW! I’d better stop before I rant and rave myself into a complete mess! Plenty of room for discussion on this topic.
Next SLOARC group session: Jan. 19th, 5:30pm at the office…
Steve–out
January 9th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Aw, I need to talk to Strat everytime before I blog. He seems to say what I’m thinking but can’t get out in words. And as for California laws; CA will okay everything. I could get started on that one; but won’t. To aggrivating. If you are a healthy person, an addict….there is help to get better. So, you use it as an excuse the rest of your life? Unless you were bombed and ran into a tree, ended up with no legs…then you need help. Like I said…I am for welfare, TO HELP YOU HELP YOURSELF, not to depend on forever. I believe in helping people, but you have to help yourself. My husband needs another hip replacement; has one other and a knee replacement. He doesn’t stop working. Even though his hip is so bad that they wanted him in the hospital last week for surgery…he has an equipment show in Feb. to get though. It our bread and butter. And we can’t depend on our partner. Hubby HAD to take on a partner because he wore his body out doing everything. Partner came into some good money, worked well for about 10 years, he’s 10 years younger than hubby, and now he is going to reap his rewards. Farmers like to buy equip at end of year. write off on taxes. He leaves for 10 day cruise during Christmas and NYE. We stay home, because hubby started business and it’s OUr baby. Partner; he’s an alcoholc, we don’t want him pulling equipment, and he doesn’t remember shit. Have we talked to him. Yep; but go out and talk to your fence and see what response you get. OK, complaining over. Thanks, been eating me up.
Back to disabilities. I have to knees, bone on bone, pain, and I could get a permit to park in the disability spots. BUT, hubby and I have a little tomato business on the side for fun? which we need to start seeds in Feb. to be ready for planting…sell to local resturants and farmers markets. But I push and do; I do my yardwork, housework (help once a week except when I broke my wrist and arm and she came much more often). I don’t ask for help, and NEVER would I ask for disability for my addiction when I did it to myself. My opinion only. And yes, you will all have free heirloom tomatos this spring, summer and early winter. Bless ya all, and again, a BIG SHOUT OUt TO MK, WHOM I’M SO PROUD OF FOR RECIEVING HER LICENSE REINSTATEMENT so she can go back to the job she was trained for and loves, RN. MK, might bring you back to recover when I have my knees done, as much as you love Fresno!!! lol MK has been a great wealth of info of my condition which I appreciate SO much. And why do I not do it? Hubby had first hip replacement in 95, and they have come soooo far. I’m hoping the same for the knees. Okay, out to enjoy Morro Bay. Again, love to all.
January 9th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Hey, obviously its been a rockin new year with all these posts. I am just a fucked up alcoholic that relapsed AGAIN. I did not do it on New Years Eve for fun, I wanted to fill a hole that the year had dug. I think the worst of the depressions was going with my sweet Mom on the bus trip to look at the Christmas lights. Alheimers with Mom for those who don’t know. I just got into that funk, Mom confused, lady in back of me petting my hair and telling me I was a good kitty. I broke. Then I tried to handle it, all on my own. Talked to people, but never talked how my heart was broken. Two friend died that were conected with my work, I was trying so hard to make sure their wishes were met. I continued with my service work, was gonna quit one but got roped into another 6 months. I seriously thought my problems were the worst in the world so I drank. Got busted big time by my husband, one day he will leave me. I know that. Hate me!!
Then I sat in a meeting, Lady lost her husband to death after lots of years of sobriety, she didn’t drink. Lady was losing her home to foreclosure, business closing its doors, and moving to an area she knows no one. She did not drink. What the hell is wrong with me, stop my fuckin whinning. I have a good life and I choose to fuck it up. WHY!!! Because I am an alcoholic and the feelings get to be to much. FEELINGS!! A new concept to not to comfortably numb them. I am working it again. Bloggers I am trying again, I am scared, this is truely a self thing. Get over it and get out of yourself. Love All, Rockin
January 9th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Nearly forgot, my ex-husband reached out to me on face-book. I answered to tell him the past was the past and dwelling on it would only hurt the future. So he starts talking to me again. Guess what, horrible angry fucking feelings start coming back like they never left. The pain I felt when I was with him hit me like a brick just reading his e-mail, it sounded so the same. I really tried to let the resentment go, but I can’t yet. If it makes me less of a person then so be it. I’m just not ready to take this on, but I did try. Gotta get my head screwed on a bit better before going that deep into my past. Peace out
January 10th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Hey Rockin
It’s nice to see you back. You know sometimes we have to just be about ourselves, you can’t keep giving it all away without recharging your emotional batteries. I know A/A always talks about how this is a self centered, selfish disease and we have to get out side of ourselves and help others to help ourselves but some times you just have to take care of you. But I do have a question only you can answer because I do this my self. Do you, when your feeling down and drawn out do you start to feel resentful about the people and things that you keep giving yourself to? Then does that resentment turn to mild self-pity? And then more resentment, then more self pity and on and on until the only answer that is left to you (or so your alcoholic mind tells you) is to take a drink? It’s a very subtle process and you may not be aware that it’s happening in the forefront of your mind but please give it some thought. I know that you said before that you were working the Steps did you ever get to steps 4&5? The big book tells us that Resentment is our # 1enemy. In my case I thought that resentment didn’t even play a part in my life until I really started to take a closer look using step 4 but low and behold there it was. Because I always thought that I was some highly complex being and the big book suggestions couldn’t apply to me because they were just to simple for such a complex dude like myself I thought they couldn’t apply to me. Until I started working Step 4 but they do work and have worked for millions like us, just give it some thought I could be full of shit. But you might find something there for yourself.
Strat
January 10th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Rocking After my mom passed in 95, I don’t think I stopped popping pills til 2001. Then my dad. This year we have gone to a funeral since the spring if not once but twice a week, and throgh the summer. In fact we couldn’t leave for MB til we hit the reception. Missed the funeral, but had to be there for my friend. And the funerals kept going since then. I buried my brother in August. I miss him everyday of my life.
You talked about you ex. I think, and I’m certainly no dr., but you need to reslove those painful situations. Someone wrote recently that it’s usually something happening in our lives that makes us or keeps us using.
Honey, I know you. Sweet, loveable. You’ll get a handle on it. And I know it’s hard watching your mom, but honey, she’s still with you. I’d give days of my life up to spend one minute with my parents again. She needs you. I know its hard. I nursed both of mine…but it’s life circle. Take care babydoll. You aren’t bad…you just haven’ found the key, and even people who are sober for YEARS can still relapse. Gods arms are holding you. Love ya.
(Boy, watched dr. drew’s new group up here. he sure doesn’t believe in subox. said it was a way to taper down in 3 days. and most of his patients end back in rehab with him. amazing I’m sticking with Dr.H)
And Rockin- YOU R NOT FUCKED UP!!!!!! Just having a hard time getting there. Have you ever checked into a rehap, like the one MK talks so highly about? Just an idea)
January 10th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Just wanted to check in, I am surviving, just alot of anxiety, and I’m sure in time, it’ll get better. I was just wondering bout a counselor. Any suggestions?
January 10th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Beverly Ford in San luis Obispo
January 10th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Yes, Bev Ford in SLO. She is bringing things to light that I never knew were there. Yes, I’m still messy, but it is helping. And yes, Strat, I am just working step four. Yes, I do find that as I give and give of myself I start to resent it. It seems that all I do is give, then need AA meetings, then try to see Mom, then try to keep up with work and assholes, then community meetings, then being a wife is nearly the last thing on my mind. Clean house, laundry, oh, do I even exist in there somewhere. Then, any ladies out there, I sweat at night so I sleep like crap. Oh yes, here comes the poor little shit on me crap. I am not buying into it anymore. I have a great life, I just get overwhelmed. If I just slow down and let myself see the miracles all around me. They are there, rainbows without the rain. Life happens all around us. And I wouldn’t want to not be full of the life I have. I just need to breathe, keep working the steps, and not drink, not matter fuckin what. Its hard, but one day at a time. Love to All, Take Care, Rockin
January 10th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
Rockin “Bio-Identical” hormones my wife swears by em.
January 11th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Rockin- if you are dealing with hormones also, that would drive anyone back to drinking. Get on some good hormonal replacement, and what Strat talks about…heard nothing but good about it. Stay sweet.
January 11th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Oh L, glad to hear you are feeling a bit better. Still thinking of you. Keep up the good fight.
January 11th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Thanks for your support. I just wish I was a rich bitch, thinkin they would not have to deal with everyday life. They would have some one to handle it for them, Right. Being silly now. Yes we continue the battle that is called life. Love it, did anyone see the pink sunset tonite. Thats what keeps me sane. The beautiful shit in life. Rockin
January 11th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Honey Rockin- Go through every house, and I promise you there are problems in each and everyone. Rich, poor, young, old, there truly are things going on in everyone’s life. (But oh, wouldn’t it be nice to be filthy rich? Right now we just are going to keep headind to wonderfully sober, and you are full of people who care for you, who pray for you, who root for you, and only want you to succeed.) We didn’t have a pink sunset tonight, but we finally had SUN in the valley. I almost forgot what it was, and had to ask someone!!! JK So Rockin, keep on rockin, believe in yourself and what you do, and call. Me, anyone. We’ll figure out how to handle your feelings a different way. You know I’d drive from the valley if you ever called and needed help. Shoot, Dr.H and Steve can do a better job talking to you than I am…but you are loved. Sweet dreams tonight…
January 11th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
<3 Bev Ford. sorry i just saw that and had to say it.
January 12th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Ha ha….For anyone who might not be savvy of the latest text symbols, <3 is a nice heart if you turn it counterclockwise 90 degrees! Thanks for checking in JWS. Hope you all are having a stellar day in sobriety! Next SLOARC group session: Tuesday, Jan. 19th, 5:30pm at the office.
Steve–out
January 12th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Hello all, and happy new year. Haven’t been on site for awhile but have been going to the groups. In reading some of the blogs I will put some of my experience and input in.
Lizzy: Methadone is a hard one to get of off but is defiantly possible and worth it. There was a time in my life that I thought I would be on that program until the day I died. I was one of the first few people who started on matince here in calif. To give an example when I started the only clinic was at the old hospital in santa maria and it cost $1.00 a month! Boy was that something. As you know the price has gone way up since then. I was on methadone matince off and on for over 10yrs. With an average dose of 160mg. I was never able to stay clean on methadone. Also every time I did get off I just when back to using all the more. I was first introduced to suboxin on the street and was buying them that way.
I kicked methadone in jail, not a pretty site and it almost killed me. After being locked away for 2yrs. I came back to the streets knowing that it was only a matter of time before I would start using again.
I made contact with the doc and Steve to get help. Although my case is not the norm. I came into this program to keep from using, help with cravings. It has done just that although taking anything is not good enough without Appling other tools available to you. What I’m talking about is getting involved with a twelve step program, go to meetings, get a sponsor, and work toward your recovery as your life depends on it.
Like I said I may not be the norm, I’m a very hard core addict and have an addictive personality to go with it. Although I have use all the different type of drugs out there I was mainly an opiate user for well over 30yrs. Suboxin has saved my life no doubt about that. I think the cost is not that out of line considering the alternate. After all I was spending way more on methadone between the fees and then the cost having to go get it. True after some time on the program I was able to only have to make the trip once a week. But also true is it never kept me from using.
I will most likely be on this for a long time I have no plans to getting off in the near future. There are times that I have a little hard time paying for it but I think back when I was using that I would have to come up with well over the monthly fee on a daily basis. Subjoin out weighs the alterative for someone like me.
Lastly I want to say that I have worked with many consolers and doctors in various detox and mantince programs. The people at sloarc are the best bar none. They do care and they also have been there. Maybe not in the same space but at least enough to know what they are talking about. I’ve known both the doc and Steve for 10yrs. Outside the office as well as in. If you want help and are willing to do the footwork they will do all that they can to help you. Remember success is all up to you When given the tools to make it work it is still up to you weather you use them and just how far you are willing to do so.
For me my recovery has to be number one, I have to work on it daily and have to be fully involved with the program and others in it. As soon as I start to think I have a handle on all this I know I’m on my way to trouble. Jan. 10, 2010 I have three years clean and sober.
January 12th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Amen.
January 15th, 2010 at 8:27 am
Next SLOARC group session: Tuesday, Jan.19th, 5:30pm at the office…..
Also, we will be at the Health Fair on Saturday and Sunday this weekend, located at the Madonna Inn Expo Center!!!! Come by and say hello!!
Steve–out
January 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Hey, we will be in MB this weekend, i’m pretty sure. Won’t be able to make it to meeting since we have 2 bd’s this week, and one is just as important as the other. Have a good one though.
Where have all the bloggers gone? MK is celebrating on cloud nine I’m sure. Rockin, let us know how you are. call, e-mail, anything. L, lizzy, ratdog, strat, bupe, cmb, jb….and all the others. miss hearing from ya all.
January 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Banjo still is good at blogging though…
January 15th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Randall Smith here just to make a comment…..have only had time to review some of the comments left last month and this month but I had a little experience. I had some trouble with finances early last month getting everything paid for. I had a full months supply of suboxone so I rationed them to last fourty five days using as little as half a tab a day and only as much as three quarters of a tab. It went well till I ran out. to make this short I went eight days without suboxone. I felt the withdrawal what I believe to be the full force. Now what i was experiencing in methadone withdrawal was so much worse than this. But Now I work and I like my job and it is important that I feel good at work to do my very best and that is how I feel. Soboxone has allowed my real personalty to emerge and be able to exercise my good work ethic. I would let people down if I could not give it my best. I made the arrangements to see doc again and finish the program. But again the wothdrawal from suboxone is nothing to fear…..I will add later and review some more comments soon Thanks
January 15th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Randall thanks so much for the cool blog! I’m very happy that you are back on board with us, and NO not because of any money that is involved, just because it brings me GREAT PLEASURE to see people do well in recovery!!! That’s the real pay-off for Doc and I…..(Tons more money to be made practicing regular medicine, in case anyone was interested..ha..)
Hope to see some of you this weekend at the Health Fair being held at the Madonna Inn Expo center….Doc, Rick, and I will be there most of the day Saturday and Sunday, so stop and say Hi!
Next SLOARC group session: Tuesday, Jan. 19th, 5:30pm at the office..
Steve———–out
January 15th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Fourth step is hard. I talked about it the other day in the office. I nearly feel like after puttting the resentment part down I am beating me up with all my fuck ups in the past. Fears, sex, all that shit. I have to start loving myself to dig me out of the hole I have dug, yup pretty deep. Yes, poor little me again. Sorry, it is a HARD step. Gonna get through it and emerge a better person. I know I can, I know I can. CHOO CHOO Train kept a rollin all night long… Anyone singing along with me, come on Aerosmith fans!!! Rockin
January 16th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Morning All,
Hey Rockin reminder the principle of the forth step is Courage it is not there to beat you up but to allow you the bravery of insight to let you see yourself in a way that we were not use to viewing ourselves.
I’m sure your sponsor has already pointed this out to you but after listing your resentments the next step is to look at how you where responsible for those resentments or more to the point what was your role in the emotion of resentment and what you will begin to understand is that it is our self centered ego centric little universe that is driving the resentments that we love to hang onto and nurture. We Alcoholic/ Addicts just love resentments in all their gross and subtle forms and it’s easily the subtle forms that really do us the most damage. Remember don’t beat yourself up if you all ready truly accepted the first three steps the your higher power has your back in all things so like you said let the Train Keep a Rollin, or maybe in this case it’s Sweet Emotions.
Strat
January 16th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Rockin…keep what you are doing. Just don’t get stuck to hard on the resentments. I happily and confidently believe in God; a God who died for my sins, gave me free choice, and a God who forgives me if I ask for it. Doesn’t mean I can take pills everyday,ask forgiveness, take pills the next day, ask for my sins to forgiven. That’s where the free choice comes in. I WILL DO MY BEST NOT TO SIN LIke THAT AGAIN. And I see doc, talk to Steve, go to my meetings. I’m not trying to preach, but if you believe in God, remember, he’s with you always. So, back to the part of, don’t keep beating yourself up. I stil believe that you are a magnificant woman, working and fighting the hardest fight of your life. You aren’t alone; you have so many friends who love you on the blog and in your life. Your mom loves you, even though it’s hard times there for you also. I’ve probably said to many wrong things when all I wanted to say was, “I love you, and if I love you, YOU CAN LOVE YOURSELF, I’m praying for you, all you have to do is to call me and I’ll be here in 2 hours, and you aren’t a fuck up. Nor did you fuck up. You have a DISEASE, and it’s hitting you harder. People get the flu; some are up in 3 day’s, others need fluids and find themselves in the hospital. You are in the middle. You will get better, you are loved. Start believing good things about yourself. We do. Love you cupcake…have agood day.
dr.h , steve and rick…hope all goes well today. We r going to Bed bath and beyond, andI’ll try to get hubby to go. He’s not walking well, and I sure don’t want his hip to slip out before his hip replacement. Don’t know if they can, but he sure is walking that way. Have a GREAT WEEKEND, and that’s to EVERYONE!!!!!!
Rockin- I’m in MB til tomorrow. Call me if you need me. Love ya, J
January 17th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
NEXT SLOARC GROUP SESSION: Tuesday, Jan. 19th, 5:30pm at the office……
Steve————out
January 17th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Hi Everyone! hope everyone had a great weekend! Sooo, I just wanted to give a HUGE, HUGE apology to Doc H, Steve, everyone at SLOARC and everyone on this blog for my meltdown and bullshit ranting.No excuses, but I’ve just been getting extremely depressed bout job situation, bout bills, medicine blah blah blah. I realized I’ve just been lazy, taking more subs than needed cuz I was lying to myself that since it wasnt vics, that it was ok. I realize that taking subs alone isnt helping me, I was getting out of control with those too. So I made some changes this week. I’ve been trying to only take a half a sub every other day ( so far , so good), been going to meetings EVERY day ( well, except for today, soooo crappy out) , been trying to be very honest with my girlfriend and my mom, who have loved me unconditionally through all this. Just trying to take this one day at a time, realizing that I’m not going to be fixed overnight, that I really need to put ALOT of work into this, that I’ll get back what I put into it, which is my life back. I REALLY appreciate all the supportive comments, for the comments that pointed out how big an ass I was being, and for Doc H and Steve not kicking me to the curb YET. So, I hope everyone can find it in their heart to forgive me for being such an ass, know that I am a better person than that.
Take Care!
January 17th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
I am so absolutely freaked out “L”!!! What a 180 degree turn? I’ll now admit it took some self-control to not respond to your opening post ALL CAPS SHOUTING.
It was a great lesson for me in “don’t defend against the un-just accusation”, which I find very difficult. Funny thing though, the universe seems to come around if you give it a chance. NOTHING I might have said was going to have even a little positive impact, and here we have the marvel of marvels, GOING TO MEETINGS!!
Honest to god, cross my heart and hope to die etc., self-help meetings is where the miracle happens. Not me or Steve, not the Suboxone, but at the group meetings. That absolutely amazing place where fish aren’t swimming, birds aren’t flying, and drug addicts and alcoholics aren’t drinking or using drugs! Makes zero sense, but there it is.
THANK YOU for joining on the blog L. You and Randall bring a breath of fresh air.
Talked with a person from Prop 36 about Suboxone. It seems to be a place where maybe the criminal justice system can sort out how to use Suboxone for the good of the hundreds who pass through.
Steve and I sat and smiled a lot at the Health Fair this weekend. BORING!! Lots of whack jobs roaming around with absolute quackery “holograph chip” band aid deals that cure anything, the space age magnets I suppose, and some wonderful drops you put on your tongue and it detoxifies all the heavy metals and toxins in your body.
Snake oil and charms. I liked it better when the snake oil had cocaine and opium extracts! At least you got SOMETHING for your dollar.
How are people supposed to take Addiction Medicine and Suboxone seriously in the midst of all that??
Dr H
January 17th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
AND I want to welcome and encourage cmb to say more! You snuck a comment in, then skittered off again!
Pretty amazing testimonial JB, I hadn’t really read it until today.
Yeah we do go back a ways JB. I remember detoxing you out the county jail years back, and it is unbelievable you have put so much clean time and sobriety together here. This is a record isn’t it? (BTW you don’t look good in orange.)
JB told me that it was as easy to get heroin and dope in prison as it was on the streets, and he STILL got sober. Atta boy.
How many self help meetings a week do you go to JB? AA or NA in general?
Steve and JB, your buddy Scotty (one of the town drunks) is out or just about to get out from maybe a 6 month stretch out on Kansas Ave. (Where the jail is for those who don’t know….. YET!) Cross your fingers and hold your breath, I don’t think he’s lasted more than 6 weeks or so before they lock him up again. Bad weather to get released to when you’re homeless.
Dr H
January 18th, 2010 at 1:34 am
LOL Dr. H. It’s always nice to hear that with all the work you put into us nuts and fruits, and you and Steve actually had a good time this weekend. JK Wish it had gone better, but mayber, JUST MAYBe you touched one persons heart. Good luck.
I got upset with my church that I go to because I offered to collect blanets, shoes, sleepingbags, new socks, warm coats and take them to the mission. My pastor thought it was a good idea, but could I pick them up EVERYDAY around 4 p.m. so it would make our chruch look clean for all of the ”ladies meetings, bible studies, meetings, funerals” we would have, especially around Christmas. Well, you all know me. I took it very well, and not wanting to hurt anyone eye’s, especially at Christmast time, got out my church address book, sent out letters or e-mails and told people what I was doing and that I’d pick them up, or they could drop them off at my home, and I’d get them to the mission. Response was wonderful, except from my pastor, and I think I may be looking for a new church. Come on, a big box decorated would hide blankets and socks, and I SWORE to get there everyday. None the less, the members were wonderful and many of us delivered them Christmas Eve, with ice chests full of peanut butter sandwhiches in memory of my son. (When his wife was working, and she’s always worked nights in the ER, he and his girls wuld make peanut butter sandwhiches, load up a couple of ice chests, then on this way to pick her up from work, he’d stop and drop off the ice chests, pick up his wife, then head back and pick up the ice chests for the next night. They were always there, empty, and they knew that they could depend on this young man to bring sandwiches so they never took his ice chests. I still cry. so after he passed away in his accident, i started to get socks, blankets,and sleeping bags are the best. Yard sales in Morro Bay have been a God send for SB’s and blanketsl Yes Dr, this is bad weather to set people out, but all we can do is pray.
L- Did you act bad? LOL We all have those moments honey, but you got a handle on it and that’s the good news. Remember, we all rant, rave, yell, cry, wonder how well get through it, so you were no different than us. Except you did a nice thing and aplogized. You we raised with great manners. Good luck L. Let us know if you need to kick any of us again. LOL< LOL< LOL!!!!! Take care sweetie.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Last reminder: SLOARC Group Session: Tuesday, Jan. 19th, 5:30pm..at the office…Hope you all can come on by…
Steve———out
January 19th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Hope everyone’s out shopping for valentine sweeties gifts. It’s so quiet on the blog, and that is the only thing I can think of what is going on. Miss you alll and hope all are well. ttfn…j
January 19th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Just curious - I used Suboxone for about 6-9 months before jumping off and choosing complete sobriety. I had a two year addition to Hydro, then morphine.
Question: How many are on Suboxone and of that set are planning to maintain on Sub or quit all together?
-Drums
January 20th, 2010 at 7:29 am
i would jump today - if i was ready.
i’ve been on for 2.5 yrs
and i’m still not certain of my sobriety.
better safe than sorry
i thought i wa ready about a year ago
went down to 1mg from 24 in about 2 weeks
stayed there or about 3 mos
had too many side effects,
but even worse - started to question my sobriety
not worth it,so here i am
back at 16mg and staying
price and side effects are worth it
i have a life again
my children have a father again
my biz has a leader again
my…………again
and so on
January 20th, 2010 at 8:58 am
Good Question Drums,
Been on Subs now for a year taking (8mg.) a day and it’s like Bupe says its working. I’m strong in my Sobriety, very active in A/A minimum five meetings a week. I Secretary two meetings, I’m literature for three, my life is in order. With that said I will probably reduce my intake to a maintenance dose over time but have no plans on fixing something that’s not broken. And after what happened yesterday I’m glad I’m on Subs I was having one of those mornings where things were quickly going down hill and was starting to have a little pity party when all of a sudden I had that strong desire to change who and what I was, you all know the feeling, you want to feel oblivious, I didn’t have cravings thanks to Subs but if I had it could have gotten ugly (I work at a place that gives me easy access to my DOC, beware M.K.) It was a flash of a feeling but a feeling none the less, which I quickly gave to my higher power. So Subs are here to stay for awhile. By the way Drums what is complete sobriety? Are you becoming a purest, do you drink coffee, take Advil or aspirin due you take other prescription Meds? Because everything alters your metabolism so where do you draw the line?
Strat
January 20th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Great conversation here folks! I submit that people taking Suboxone, and not abusing it, are 100% clean and sober; and I’m actually from the “old school” of 0 tolerance…Personally, I take no drugs, but have to have my coffee every morning or I have symptoms of caffeine withdrawal, i.e. pounding headache, sweating…which a half cup of strong Joe, cures in a minute or two….so yes, I am addicted to a stimulant, if you will….
I believe there are recovering opiate addicts that do just GREAT without ANY medications, and then I see those who actually have an “opiate deficiency” if you will, and would physically crave opiates everyday the rest of their lives without Suboxone.
I’m hoping JB will post here, and tell a bit about his experience as far as using Suboxone only for craving, and not to detox with, as most of our patients have done…..
Keep up the good flow of info here everyone….Good stuff!
Steve——–out
January 20th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
So Bupster, did you ever sort out your position on benzodiazepines?
DrumsLLrL, is life off Suboxone better than life with it? Any cravings? I forget, do you go to meetings or not?
L wins the prize so far for the BIGGEST 180 degree turn around, like ZERO meetings and a miserable grump-face, to many many meetings and actually SMILING some!
Dr H
January 20th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Dear Bups and strat: Yes, stay on Sub until you are way ready to jump. Life on Sub is a shit-load better than life on anything acquired illegally and better than most other opiates.
Dr. H - I do attend meetings (I found one meeting that works for me). For me life is better off the sub. However, I do not judge those that are on Sub and those that wish to stay on it for maintenance. Like I said, life is better on sub than any opiate (or opiod - whichever is correct).
If I felt the need or urge, my hope is that I would be back in your office tomorrow.
Drums
January 20th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Glad L is smiling some again.
Right now DrH is helping me til I get my ”nerve” up to have at least one knee replacement, which everyday seems closer and closer.
When back on subox, think I’ll spend my life on that planet. It worked for me very well. And right away. Although I understand Strats feelings of wanting to be “out of it”, but when your panties are on straight, you just understand that you have to work those feelings out,, and its easy to work out while sober, and remembering what it was like NOT being sober. Trying to shut my feelings away only got me into trouble in the first place, so why go back there again?
January 20th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
The best reason to stay on sub for me? I’m going to a BD dinner tonight. My 8 year old first grandgirl. I was high when she was born. High when I babysat her. High, high, high… First time I saw Dr.H I had to stay in SLO one more day cuz he didn’t think I was in withdrawl enough, so he saw me on Friday and boy, I was there by then! Took the sub, felt good, drove home to the central valley, 1/2 way home started to not feel good and called the office. Dr. called right back and told me what to do. Talked to Rick on Sat on how I was doing. And on Sat. night I was taking my best 2 grandgirls to Disney Princesses on ice. Now they paint with a sober nana. They stay with a sober nana. They drive with a sober nana. They LOVE a sober nana. For me, it’s the best.
January 21st, 2010 at 9:10 am
dr h,
i still have some of the valium you gave me ages ago.
the vistaril cuts it when life is mild,
but there have been nights when the days aren’t so kind.
i take about 1/4 of a 5mg tab before bed then.
the vistaril usually cuts it,
but with a biz that 95% of income is people’s discretionary $$…..
……..well, let’s just say that 1/4 is required at times.
i certainly know the potential for abuse of benzos.
never been there, but have seen it 1st hand.
felt the desire - not just the need, if you get my drift.
definitely not my doc.
(yes, my esp hears you..’yet’…)
January 21st, 2010 at 9:18 am
and just a word of caution…
the most recent 1st hand experience of benzo abuse is one of my former aa sponsors.
not a pretty sight.
got rx’d xanax .25mg 3/day and rapidly increased.
he needed them just after an illness,
which was over in 2 days,
2 mos ago.
15+ yrs down the crapper if you ask me.
January 21st, 2010 at 10:30 am
Good stuff Bupe….Addiction can lead us to such weird places! Heck, I have ABUSED Tylenol PM in the past! Ha ha….how lame is that!!
Keep up the good responses here everyone….
Next SLOARC group session will be Tuesday, Feb. 2nd, 5:30pm at the office.
Steve—–out
January 21st, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Sounds like you’re doing just fine Bup!!
I was worried a while back when you were sniffing around asking benzo questions! Sounded like you were headed that route.
I’ve never had Xanax, but I hear from a shrink I know “EVERYONE LIKES IT!”
Highly suspicious. Like Soma for example, never relaxed a muscle ever but… people like it, and want more. Go figure.
Dr H
January 21st, 2010 at 3:04 pm
fine? yea, ok, fine sounds about right.
no more xanax, so fine.
i should have listened more to myself back a few months ago.
i would like to say no more to the benzos - period,
but that wouldn’t work at this point in my life.
thanks for the input
January 21st, 2010 at 5:58 pm
My family dr kept writing somas for me years ago for my bad back. Took one, and couldn’t wake up for a couple of days. Called the office and told them to take me off of it, and make a remark in my chart regarding it. Bad back, office visit, dr called script in, husband picked it up for me, looked at it when he brought it home, saw it was soma again, threw it in a basket and didn’t take any. Went on for about 2 years. My niece became VERY addicted to soma, and we very well almost lost her more than once. Followed the ambulance to Fresno Hospital, when the lights would flip on, and we knew she was fighting for her life in the ambulance right in front of our eyes. She’d take 5 and tolerate them, but 6 nearly killed her. Finally came home and cleaned out my ”basket” of meds. There where at least 30 bottles full of 60 somas, and if she’d ever had gotten her hands on them, it would have my my neglect that killed her. And I was oblivious to them in my “basket” because it wasn’t one of my Doc of choice.
As for xanax, I take it. Started out with severe panic attacks, and not able to leave the house. Stayed home for one year, barely moving. My Dr. convinced me to take xanax, and suddently, I was leaving the house. But I took the correct dosage, and why on this one? I don’t know. Don’t think I’ll ever know. Was cutting down on dosage when my son was killed, and Dr. immediately upped my dosage. Fine by me. I didn’t want to really deal with or remember one of the worst times of my life..I’ve finally started cutting them down by myself again…to the point where I laugh because from cutting them in half, and in half again, all I have is powder. And I’m doing fine not taking so much. I think it can and IS a very addicting drug, but like many other drugs, has its good points to use when needed. Like anything in life, you have to take control of it, not let it get out of hand, and pull the plug on it when you know you don’t need the help of it anymore. Just my opinion. TTFN Been babysitting two sick little grandgirls, and I need a small nap before bedtie. Is that a sign of getting older? Or Bette? Haha don’t answer. Think I know already….
January 21st, 2010 at 10:41 pm
Bad couple of weeks. Been sick, last two weeks at damn meetings two times a week at 6 frikking 30 am to get set up. Missed group, haven’t been to the meetings i really need. Went to see Mom for a “family dinner” at Sydney and she was having a really bad nite. Really bad. I know its the alheimers, I know. But it hurts, and I want to make it go away. She wouldn’t kiss me goodnite because I was leaving, turned away. Nearly was crying. She is going to be 90 and I just don’t know how I can handle it when, well, I can’t say it. I am a selfish piece of shit I know for wanting her here. I am breaking down again. Tired and tired of trying sometimes. I have to stop listening to the voice inside my head, and I know you all know that voice I am talking about. You know you want it, your just an alkie, why bother. You’ll feel better. You know you will. But I won’t, I always feel like shit. I am going to ruin everything if I listen to that fucking addict in my head. Its just harder sometimes than others. Sorry guys, not upbeat tonight. Gotta get out of it cuz there is always going to be something. Thats life. Checking in with Bev Ford tomorrow. Probably not going to put on mascara before I go. Take care all, LUV !!!
January 21st, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Rockin…we all have good and bad days. sometimes i think the bad outweighs the good. but on those days, we just have to kick our own butt and get going, and at the end of the day be proud that we did. i have bad days. why should i hurt so bad at this age? my parents were retired and running from golf corse to different golf course everyday. my mom had bad hips and knees, and took vicoden every hour to get through her days. she tried so much, and knew she was going to die before every going to the drs. “I did it to myself, what can they do for me?” so for years we watched her get worse from emphasema til the day we held her as she died. I wasn’t even 40 yet, and no mom to tell me how to help me raise my kids. no, i was still growing up myself, but took a crash couse real fast. and had lots of thoses days when my ”friends” got me through, or so i thought. we’ve never really traveled because we’ve been tied down to the business. then my dad started to get bad and his goal was to live to 80. almost made it by a year. my son…way to young…and by rights, my brother was to young at 59. i’ve lost so many that i love, and all i can say is, live each day better than yesterday, because you never know what news you will get tomorrow. i’ll die an addict, and there are days that i’d like to ”escape”, but sweetie, each day is a gift from God. and He doesn’t give us more than we can handle. we fight our battle everyday, and become better for it because when we put our head on our pillow at night, we can thank the Lord thethe day we got through, and pray for strenght for the one coming. ihonestly believe that each day is a gift. and I believe you are doing well. so much on your plate, but treading the water everyday. that makes me proud of you. awesome lady you are. we are all entitled to break down. but all we have to do is bring ourselves up again. hope this made sense, but knowingme, probably not!! lol take care rockin. love you much
January 21st, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Hi you all.
Well I’ve been skimming through the posts so will put a little of my input into the mix. Seems to be talk about getting off of subs because of $ and I can understand that thought, but I have to look at the real cost. For myself an addict, the cost of subs and being in this program comes no ware near what I was paying or would be paying if I was out doing my drug of choice. When I’m using I find the way to support my habit unforntionaly this always involves me doing illegal activities. I have also tried many other programs, I was on methadone for over 10yrs., LAMME 5yrs., trouble with any and all the other programs they never kept me from using.
Subs have on the other hand done this for me. I’m able to live a normal life and most of all they help with my craving of the drug. Not to say I don’t think of using, after 35yrs. of using this may never go away for me. But by taking the subs it helps detour those thoughts and keeps me from going there. Of course the subs alone will not do this. I feel my involvement with 12 step programs and living and working in recovery on a daily basis adds to my success. Would it be nice not to have to take anything and have the 12 step programs work for me? Yes of course, but I know myself all to well and I have also tried this route and it just didn’t work for me. I have no plans on getting off of subs. But we all have different paths and I feel that when and if you do decide to get off I feel it is very possible. Of course to do so you should work close with the dr. and follow there advice. You also would be best if you had a very solid foundation in recovery before you attempt this. Our addict mind will talk us into anything and if your not careful you will find yourself right back where you left off. Only you know if you can really stay clean and sober without the help of subs.
As for the talk about the benzo’s and somas. For me I know that if I want to take ether of these its to get something out of them. I love benzo’s and the way they make me feel. I also know that as soon as I start using these it is only a matter of time before I pick up again. From personal experience and also seeing others I know that benzo’s are very addictive and they have one of the worse withdraws you can possibly go through. I have kicked $200 a day habits, methadone, ect. and nothing comes close to what I went through trying to kick benzos. Almost died the last time I had to go through it, and have had close friend die kicking them. Plan and simple they are just a gateway to other things and as I said If I have the desire to use them its because I want to get high.
I’m very thankful for subs and the people of sloarc. I know they really care about us and only want the best for all of us. If you are going to be on subs try to listen and do what they suggest. Get involved with the 12 step program of recovery. And If the time comes that you want to get of off these and feel its time I know they will work with you to make that experience as pleasant as possible. Remember We put our self in the position that we are in and sloarc is only there to help those that need help with there addictions. I’m great full there finally is another outlet besides methadone.
I was an alcoholic and addict for over 35yrs. and never was able to get more than a couple of years clean and sober. I feel that with the help of this program I will be able to stay that way. On Jan 10th I celebrate 3yrs..
You all are in my prayers and I hope the best for you all.
JB
January 22nd, 2010 at 7:14 am
Good morning all..Steve here…
WOW<><>Thanks JB for checkin’ in! You don’t post a lot, but when you do, there is a wealth of real experience there! I learn the most about addiction from folks who have been there and lived to tell us about it; And yes, I draw a lot of ideas from my own life, living as a once VERY ACTIVE and now recovering addict/alcoholic….
I figure Bupe is gonna have something to say about the Benzo issue again, and I want to put my 2 cents in first. I FULLY AGREE with JB about Benzos having a horrendous withdrawal period (been there a couple times, and I attempted to “drink them away”…ha..) also for me and many others they DO lead back to our drug of choice. The feeling I got from them mimicked the effect of alcohol very closely! I watch this phenomenon all the time at my job; we use benzos to safely detox folks from alcohol, it prevents seizures which can be fatal. Then we OFTEN have a difficult time getting them to STOP the benzos once the withdrawal period is over. (Usually a week or so…) It’s no mystery to me why they want to stay on them..Heck, “Now I can get the same feeling as being drunk and I don’t stink like stale alcohol, it’s a legal script, and Viola’, NO HANGOVER in the morning!” (And Rockin’Stuff, the answer is still NO, for prescribing any Benzo to you!! Sorry dear, it would be a catastrophy for you, guaranteed!)
So there is the conundrum……..Having said all that, I HAVE watched a few folks (VERY darn few, Bupe being one of them..) like Bupe actually do WELL by using a small dose of Benzos for anxiety and sleep. I hope Bupe tells his complete story for us here one day, but briefly, without divulging too much, Bupe has been with us a LONG TIME and done very well in our program..I propose that his sobriety qualifies as %100!! There aren’t many folks using prescription benzos who I would say that about. He is a unique case. (Careful now Bupe, I stated your “case” is unique, not you personally…’cause when we as addict/alkies start thinking WE are unique, there is ALWAYS a fall coming up!” )
As Bupe has said here in the past, when I first met him at our office I was pretty new to seeing people using Benzos and staying sober; and I was like, “WTF dude, I’m gonna suggest that Doc yank you off this shit!!” ha ha….As some of our other patients will attest to, that is EXACTLY what happened to some of them, and I truly believe I helped them avoid relapse by doing so…They were pissed as hell at me at the time, but have now come back to thank me, and we are good friends..(Hey “Stick-up Kid, ya hear that???) Doc pulled me aside after I “attacked” Bupe and told me to back off….After reading his case history I changed my attitude and today he is possibly the only person I would “go to bat for” to defend using Benzos..He DOES NOT abuse them and I believe uses such a small amount that people like JB and myself would say, “Jeez, that’s not even enough to “feel”!”
Ok, enough morning rambling from ol’ Steve here. It’s 6:10 in the morn, and I just talked with one of our daily “check in” folks, an alcoholic who drank like me (1.75 liter of vodka daily) and now has several months of continuous sobriety! A miracle for sure as are all of you!!
Next SLOARC group session: Feb. 2nd, 5:30pm at the office…
STEVE———–OUT
January 22nd, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Sometimes I wonder if people really HEAR what others are saying???
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 am
I will definitely take you up on the invite to blog Dr.H. Hello my fellow addiction survivors; surviving this disease. Although i’m not 100% sure if it is partially a disease and mostly a choice. I relate to each and every blogger in one way or another. Using, addiction, craving, numbing my deep pain is freak’in consuming my mind lately!!! I am sober from norco (stealing it from an ill family member) 1yr & 22 days (ate them like candy) But in my mind that was a step up from my 10 yr. meth addiction and madness that comes with that evil drug. Recently a rather traumatic and still confusing THING (i will call it) happened to me and has really been screwing with my mind, and is on the edge of the thin line between sobriety or choosing to numb this new deep hurt i’ve been burdened with. ADVICE anyone? Also addiction alone should never qualify a person as “disabled” that is a F-@!?D up cop out. physical impairemants are so opposite of not letting your will and faith stop you from drinking or using. that is a major insult to disabled people. Addicts have to keep busy and gosh darn it grow up and join the rest of us on planet earth! Work 8-12 hrs/day like me and single with children like me !! Even though i am an addict nobody needs to pay my way. I believe that is being accountable and responsible which helps with self esteem and pride in yourself.Sorry for the ramble so please if anyone bothers to read my long ass story please reply 2 me we are on this ARC 2gether
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:54 am
Good morning CMB et al,
Good to see you back, I agree with most of what you say but beware your comment about this not being a disease but a choice certainly when you pick up that drug and put it your body that’s a volitional thought but the underlying condition is a disease and as we all know after that first fix or drink all choice pretty much goes out the door, along with all the good things in your life. I danced for years with that argument I believed that it was all self-will because I was raised to be self-sufficient, I was capable of handling all things that were related to Me, Me, Me hah what a fallacy that was. It was only after being driven into the ground yet one more time and having the good doctor patiently lay it all out for me that the light finally came on. My disease is a power greater than my self and the only cure is a power higher than that, and I was at a point that I was done suffering. Now the world is perfect the sun is always shining, birds follow me around and sing to me and children smile up at me and give me candy. Hah, Hah, seriously things are good. CMB if you gave us more detail on what your “Thing”is we could all chime in and help, but remember this, Thoughts are things and as long as your addict is trying to control those your on shaky ground, try to remember steps One thru Three give the emotions that your thoughts are creating over to your Higher power, not easy sometimes but certainly better they letting them fester and get a mind of their own.
Strat
January 23rd, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Went to see Ted Nugent last night. It was just what I needed after being so responsible and so sick. I had fun with my husband, I laughed, I danced. It was living again and it seems I have been so stuck in a depression from not feeling good, being tired, going to work like that and the dark, damp weather that I was turning in on myself, listening to the voices I described earlier. I know one of my major faults is I don’t hand things over to my higher power. I start to let go then always pull the problem back. Something to work on. Rockin
January 23rd, 2010 at 4:31 pm
HI
I am new to this site but not new to suboxone. I enjoyed reading all the comments, very interesting and supportive.
I am not really an M.D. I used to pretend I was. Medicating myself,etc. I have been on subs for ? years. Struggling sometimes with the fact I may need them forever?!!!! I have tried to take myself off without asking Dr H (who IS VERY caring and wonderful by the way for those of you who may not know.)
I don’t like telling other docs I take them. BTW- Are we supposed to be wearing a medical bracelet in case of a serious accident and they need to give us something?
I still have so many questions, but I trust DR H. I go to lots of meetings now and I am in touch with my sponsor every day.
Best wishes to all of you. I will keep coming back.
January 23rd, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Moderation? never did know whaT THAT MEANT!
January 23rd, 2010 at 4:39 pm
iT’S ME AGAIN Unsure if my posts are going through? It says waiting for moderation??? don’t know anything about it!
One last comment-Dr H is also VERY smart!!! We had a funny discussion the other day about the 2 people who live in me. I told him my addict/alcoholic person will egt smaller, weaker now that i am working harder in recovery than I was and my recovery person will get big and strong. He disagreed and said the addict/alcoholic is always strong and smart. I didn’t believe him at first, But……. he is right. The addict in us is very smart and always waiting, knows just what button to push.
January 23rd, 2010 at 4:56 pm
i’ve given some thought to the disability question.
it’s a tough one if your addiction results from a disability.
say r.a. or cancer treatment.
can’t exist without treatment?
wouldn’t be alive, or wanting to live, without?
cop-out?
…hmm…
i think pcs stinkerbelle could chime in on that one.
January 23rd, 2010 at 5:01 pm
some interesting topics being pursued here lately. It reminds me of some of the conversations I had with my late alcoholic husband. This was when I was not in active addiction- I didn’t used to drink or pop pills- I was just a normal acting person(imagine that) My husband used to come home from work and immediatly go to the refrigerator and open a bottle of bud long necks(hate that sound to this day) To shorten this story, you all know how this goes- it escalated to the point where if he was awake he was drinking- I used to try to tell him how unhappy I was with the situation- ya I know I was naive- thats when I thought it had to do with me- I then pointed out that if he was going to behave in this manner he was going to have to learn to play the guitar. Because that was the only profession that his lifestyle would fit in well with. I used Kieth Richards as an example- something like “for god sakes you aren’t Kieth Richards” you can’t afford to drink like this. And of course this did nothing. So I probably would have benefited from Al-anon attendance,instead I withdrew became angry and found that if I took some of his vicodin- I was better able to deal with him. So I eventually became the very person I was so disgusted by. The difference was I hated who I had become- and wanted help. He had no intention of ever changing- so I left and you know what happened to him. The moral of the story is we can only save ourselves. Geeze I didn’t mean this to be such a downer but thats how it goes sometimes
MK
January 23rd, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I have been pondering the disability question. As one who pays taxes and HATES to see our money misspent this is a puzzle. Not black and white. I was on disabilty after my OD. I did not know how to do life without opiates and alcohol. I could not have worked in that state! (thought I could) Ended up in a program that didn’t let me luckily. I was off work and had time for meetings, counselling, walking on beach and noticing life. Learning how to live. If I would have worked???? I would not have stayed sober and clean!!!!!!! Of course it wasn’t froever/ I am now a very productive member of society and paying taxes again!
I don’t like to see people on permanent disability wo can walk/talk, sit, move their arms and legs. I don’t get it!!!?? can’t they do something to be of service somewhere? answer phones, etc. Temporary disbilty is okay until you learn to cope with whatever disease you have.
It’s like the Chinese characters for CRISIS. They translate to Danger/Opportunity.
We must look fo how we can turn things around and find the gifts.
January 23rd, 2010 at 6:03 pm
p.s. and use our gifts. So… my opinion is unless it is a sever case. There should just be temporary disabilty.
January 23rd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Hi again-
just curious about the group? Is it a. meeting or support group? For suboxone users?….just checking if you don’t mind
January 23rd, 2010 at 7:25 pm
WELCOME Jr M.D.!
Blog for anyone who feels like communicating with others, mostly patients, some “former” patients, and the occasional stray. You are totally welcome here!
I feel bad pushing you sometimes, interestingly I recently pushed someone TOO hard and they’re still trying to decide if I’m “safe” and “trustworthy” etc.
I was thinking back to our conversation where you were telling me your concept of working so YOU got stronger and the ADDICT got weaker, and I was dead set against the image and said so in no uncertain terms. I suppose I could adopt the whole “you’re probably right, but have you considered….” approach, but it seems what helps people most is friendly non-judgmental brutal HONESTY. It seems to be what allows patients to cut through the bull-pucky and pierce the shields and allow the non-addict to look at what’s going on from a position of reality.
I heard someone talk about the “Golden Moment”, being where addicts see things as they ARE rather than as they WISH them to be.
I am still very much of the opinion that any model of looking at the disease that involves the concept of the ADDICT getting weak and less of a threat is TOTALLY wrong. The ADDICT would like you to THINK they were going away, or were going to shut-up forever, and that you were kicking their behind, while they set you up for the BIG FALL.
Dr H
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:15 pm
I was telling this story to a mutual girlfriend and she laughed and said “”He is right!” It was then I could see what you mean. The addict in me is smart, doesn’t get any dummer and really is out to get me. I know now it is not ever going to go away.
Funny though, I am starting to recognize the voice now.
I guess I am a real slow learner.
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Everyone is probably wondering where the moderation comment came from? “What’s up with the new person-Jr M.D.??
When I first posted my reply a message came up and satyed there for several minutes saying “waiting for moderation”. It is gone now, and it doesn’t happen anymore!
and I wasn’t hallucinating!
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:28 pm
BTW- I know you think I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer! I know what a blog is! I was curious about the group at 5:30 that was on Jan 19?
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Ahhhhh.. the every other week SLOARC Steve group 5:30 at the office!
Same story really… mostly patients, frequently more opiate than alcohol, most all on prescription medications to assist their sobriety, many Suboxone persons.
And I STILL think you’re NTBBOTT
(Not the brightest bulb on the tree)
BUT - Slow and steady wins the race, and I’m way heartened you appear to be buying into the two person model. The few I watch who struggle with it also struggle with sobriety. It’s not a fight, it’s a Tai Chi type thing. If you don’t hit the ball back with your addict, then they can’t play tennis. If you refuse to discuss issues with them, they can’t trick you and convince you black is white and day is night.
Long day… I better stop…
Dr H
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:09 pm
Moderation.
When someone posts their FIRST comment to the blog, it goes into limbo and doesn’t get put up on the blog until a moderator reviews it and makes sure it’s not midget porn or Greek Vicodin ads (honestly, stuff like that shows up daily, there are internet “bots” that cruise around and look for blogs to spam).
After Steve approves the first one, then all subsequent ones get posted right away.
Dr H
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:38 pm
Aha! Interesting it would use the word “moderation”.
Yes, I always bought the 2 person model. I know now one of them is not going away and not shrinking!
I refuse to negotiate with that one!
January 24th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Welcome Jr.,
You know I think the learned Doc. never goes quite far enough in his description of is Two Person Model, he never comes out and says that your Addicts single purpose is to kill you, it sounds dramatic I know but the end result is always the same. It also ups the ante. Your Addict is not your cute imaginary friend who you have playful conversations with, it is waiting patiently for you to let your guard down for that one split second so it can carry on with it’s primary purpose, your demise, it’s that black and white. Remember while your in Recovery your Addict is silently doing push ups in the corner.
Now isn’t that a bright sun shiny thought to start your day.
Strat.
January 24th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
For some reason I see the ADDICT as neither good nor evil, I think having some big “hate” thing going only encourages interacting with them.
Some say love and hate are not opposites, because both involve “caring” about the entity, and that “indifference” is really the opposite of BOTH love and hate.
You have to be emotionally tied to the ADDICT in order to “hate” then, and I propose it’s dangerous to care about the addict one way or another.
The ADDICT is there, the ADDICT is smarter and stronger, BUT the ADDICT can’t control you if you refuse to interact with them.
Maybe I need more rest….
Dr H
January 24th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Thanks! You are right! I am not going to converse with it anymore!!! No negotiating.! I couldn’t even tell which one it was! IT DISGUISE ITSELF AS GUILT even. and I fell for it. “You don’t do enough”, “you don’t spend enough time with them”. (I actually work,cook,do a lot for my family.) It knows how to get to me. This one has worked on me a couple times now.
It’s funny how I forgot that when I was using and drinking I was there physically but either in a black out or nodding out.
I feel different this time! (today) I hope it lasts.
I’ve been going to some great meetings!!!
January 24th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Interesting topics…I know that when I first came to SLOARC, the whole “two person model” thing helped me a lot. I found it very hard to accept that I was capable of doing the horrible things I was doing to obtain drugs, and I didn’t understand why I tried to stop so many times, and really wanted it, but couldn’t. The idea that there was an “addict,” not only made it easier to cope, but also gave me some sort of explanation for my behavior…something i think i needed at the time.
Now that I am further along in my recovery, I don’t really think of myself as having two parts. I’m not saying that there isn’t truth to the two person model; there most certainly is. But the addict “part” is just as much a part of me as the good “part.” I understand that I have a disease, and it helps me to know that it influences the way I think and feel. But even if my disease is influencing my thoughts, feelings, or actions, they are still MY thoughts, feelings, and actions. They might not be me in my best form, but they are still me. If I want to live a happy and healthy life, I have to accept me, all of me, the good and the bad. In order to stay sober, I have to accept that my addiction is part of who I am. It does not define me, but it exists.
I am not by any means saying that anyone should reject the idea that there is an addict in us that wants us dead. It just helps me to accept all of these parts as me, and It helps me take responsibility for my thoughts, feelings, and actions. I sometimes get angry with my disease and try to blame it. These feelings are understandable, and expected from anyone who has addiction. But in order for me to truly love myself, I have to love ALL of me, the good and the bad. We all have good and bad in us. It is all about balance.
As for recovery making us stronger, and the “addict,” addiction, or disease (or whatever you like to call it
) getting weaker–I believe this is false. I think that as our recovery progresses, we become better at coping. That part of who we are still exists and is strong as ever, but we have the tools to deal with it. To get all metaphorical on you guys, Addiction is a fire. We laid the wood down a long time ago, lit the fire, and kept adding gasoline and paper. Our lives burst into flames, and that’s when many of us ended up in recovery. Recovery gave us a way to put out the fire. Each meeting, each saying, suboxone, etc contributed to that. But the wood is still there. All it takes is a little negativity to add fuel to ignite that fire. When we use the tools of recovery, we keep that fire from igniting. This can make the fire of addiction seem like it doesn’t exist anymore. It isn’t burning, it isn’t destroying our lives. But that doesn’t mean that its foundation isn’t there, or that can’t come back just as easily. That is why recovery is so important. We have to continue to use the tools one day at a time to keep our lives from bursting into flames. No matter how many years of sobriety you get, you are never invincible when it comes to that first drink or drug. That is why we must treasure every moment, and practice the principles of recovery one day time.
We have to work together. No one ever has to do this alone.
Sorry I babbled. I felt like writing. Hope you all are well. Stay strong!
JWS
January 24th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Thank you!!! I liked that-jws.
January 24th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
Welcome JR.. Your addict will disguise itself as guilt, happiness, able to get on my itself, self loathing, depression: it will even trick you into believeing that you are well and no longer an addict; but believe me; it’s hanging around in many coustumes, moods; be careful. Are you a Christian? Well, I am, and i compare my addict to Satan. Always trying to trick me to do something that God gave him the power to do. So, being a Christian to me is something I pray and try to do better to step and stay away from ‘’satan.”, or as an addict, i compare satan to my ”addict.” Always working, thinking, wondering, how to trick me into thinking I’m well, perfect, no longer dependent on my DOCS. Doesn’t work. As long as I breath, so does my addict. As long as I believe and am alive and live a Christian life, I know Satan does his best to bring me ”back to the black side.” Okay, thats my opinion. Hope it makes sense to you, as I’m tired and afraid i’m not even making sense to myself.
As for HOW do or did we become addicts? Simply could have been migraines before the wonderful new medications came out: that’s what happened to me. Used to many vicoden, then norcos, to try and stop beating my head from the cement floor, or the wooden wall; not wanting to throw up for 5 days, throwing up, and wishing and wondering ”why me? I don’t believe I deserve this pain.” Then when I didn’t have a headache, I LOVED the feeling of the norcos, almost like a a reward for all the headaches I’d endured. So, I awoke my addict, and my addict will be with me forever. I just need to realize that my addict will be with me forever, and it will be a consant battle.
Almost like a long marraige. 30 plus years. Should I had bailed out when the going was tough, or hung in and tried to make it better. There are thousand questions and and answeres… and only you can make those decisions.
Hi Bupe. So, you want me to answer a question about disability, regarding if your pain is due to a disability, what should you do. I’ve been living with this for a year next month. Sit disabeled, walk with help from Dr.H, or the fear of two, not one, surgery. and will the surgery that your husband work? (which it didn’t on him), wait 3-5 years to see if they work some of the kinks out, which I think they will, or as I’ve been doing many days lately, even with Dr.H’s and Steves help, cry, fall, get up, cry and start over again. I carry crutches in my cars in case I no longer can go anylonger. My sister is a nurse, and like i told MK, i very stupidly told her, and what I was taking, and she’s all over me like flies on horse shit. And she gets 360 norcos herself a month for ‘’sore” feet. I told her she was calling the kettle black last week, and we haven’t spoken since. Maybe it was because I pick up her medication because her husband would rather play golf than do her the ”favor” she asked of him. So Bupe, as interesting as I love to read your blogs, I don’t know what you want me to answer. Maybe you can be more specific for me. And YES, I’m very frightened, and as MK can tell you, it’s one of the more painful surgeries there are. And after 3 this year, I’m not ready to hop into to surgery room again. only if mk were there with me. I can tell you that I’m tired, I don’t take all the pills that are prescribed to me because I a stubborn swedish person, and I think “I can get by, I can do this” and by thenI I’m in so much delirious pain that I’m taking what Dr.H told me to do. And I’m also crying at that point because I’m not able to kick balls around with my grandgirls, or run around Disneyland with them, and I took a vow 30 years ago that I’d never use a scooter to get around as long as I had two legs and feet. Sorry I didn’t answer your question, but rewrite it, and I’ll try to do better. Oh, and this situation isn’t so great on a marriage. You’re with someone over 32 years, and they “Dont understand why you are afraid to grab that golden ring. What happened to your spirit?” I think I’m fighting enough right now to think about grabbing the golden ring. What if your bone shatters? and you are left without any leg, let alone one that just hurts all the time? Sorry. Tired. Left yesterday morning at 6 to LA and pick up daughter who visited her best friend for a week, then drove Hwy 1 to Morro Bay (beautiful day) to check the house out since we are in a flood zone, had a nice sleep, was the first one up cleaning the yard, laundry, mopping floor, shower, hair, makeup, woke up husband because he wanted to go to breakfast, told daughter before we left cuz we’d like to get to the valley before 2, did the mail bit, stopped and dropped off the water bill, got home, she’s still asleep, and we didn’t leave til 2:30. Not to far off, but driven a bit crazy. finally took a pill for knees and off we were off, and I’m still wondering if I turned off the garage lite. Good nite to all. You all had great blogs which were all interesting.
Rockin…how are you really doing? Remember, you are the most important one right now…love you…keep on keeping.
MK- thanks for the friendship, information, and the acceptance of my useless abuse. Who knew we were going through so much of the same thing. Did you get a job? Let me know…love to all
January 25th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Hello everyone>CMB checking in to say that I thank you stratman for your reply. I agree that we have a horrible DISEASE and that really is the bottom line, period. If you all could not tell, my addict wanted me to numb myself from the physical and mental hurt i endured but i am proud to report that I DID NOT LISTEN TO MY ADDICT!!!!!! HOORAY! A huge challenge but sobriety for me is imperative and i basicly called on another sober woman who passed me her # at one of my !st. women’s meeting and we have been supportive of one another ever since 2004
January 25th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Steve here from SLOARC. Wonderful blogs everyone! NOW we are getting back to the way the blog was meant to be used…Recovery ideas of all types…..
Just wanted you all to know that my “addict” is STILL just as strong, maybe even more cunning, and baffling as well, as it was 25 years ago…The other day I was driving over on California st. kind of in the Campus Liquor area and SHABAMMMMMMM!!!! Right there was the house where I use to buy massive amounts of cocaine, and then grab a 1.75 liter of Vodka and head home to my sweet unsuspecting wife!!!!! I’m a little past 10 years clean and sober, and I could TASTE the cocaine in the back of my throat! All nice and numb and I was heading into the “warm and fuzzy, packed in cotton, back in the womb” feeling!!!! ANYONE know the feeling I mean???? (Yeah, I thought so!, you can get it with lots of different drugs, including alcohol, and of course opiates….)
Keep in mind this is TEN YEARS down the road….I KNEW I was in even more trouble when I looked to see if the dealer’s CAR was still there (he was no college kid, he sold coke and other stuff as a biz and had for many years)…..Now at this point, my addict had me by the short hairs, and it knew it had the upper hand because, I have not had any serious LONG conversations with my addict for 10 years, therefore it was kind of like, “Oh hey, ol’ buddy, haven’t seen you for a long time, how’s life going?” and blah blah blah, next thing you know you’re knockin’ on the door…ha ha…which of course I did not do; the feeling passed within seconds, I said a short prayer of gratefulness to my higher power, and I went and rented a movie (NOT ‘BLOW” by the way..ha ha..) and had a wonderful, NORMAL evening……(in case you are wondering, the dealer’s car WAS in the driveway…..Guess he doesn’t spend his profits on new cars..haha..) BUT, JUST THE FACT that I LOOKED to see if the car was there, means I had the “HOOK” in my mouth already, and was somehow able to SPIT IT OUT and drive on by….I also called some trusted friends on my cell phone to help me dissipate whatever feelings were lingering after I drove away….Interesting thing is I drive by that area a lot and this is the first time “That House” talked to me….Thank goodness for 12 –step programs! Saved my ass!
Keep bloggin’ everyone, and the next SLOARC group session, will be Tuesday, Feb. 2nd, 5:30pm at the office….”JR. MD” come on by if you like, this is NOT a 12-step meeting, although our focus is obviously recovery…We sit in a circle and discuss what’s going on in our lives…Cross-talk is welcome as long as it doesn’t get too disruptive. We don’t pray, (although I say ones in my head a lot! Ha ha….) but I always notice TONS of spirituality going on there….It’s a confidential group, who you see there, what we say there, STAYS THERE, PLEASE!!!!
Later everyone,
Steve—————————out
January 25th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
I am watching True Life…I’m addicted to pills. Why do they put shit like this on t.v.? for torture? It shows everything…like the oxy sliding down the tinfoil and all of that. How do i know that I am and always will be an addict? well…i’m still watching the show. even though i get that little yearning feeling inside of me that we all know so well, i’m still watching. No worries, i am not going to use today. but it is still crazy how just a simple flash of images can start that fire inside of me. I wonder if the entertainment value of the show is worth making thousands of oc addicts joans for their drug of choice. Probably not, but will it change? No.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
JWS; don’t know what true life is; i’m probably to old. but i do watch dr. drew recovery; and he’s really dorky, nothing as cool as Dr.H; but listening and watching and remembering helps me to remember and stay away. Then I go to a meeting and try to head back the right way. this problem will go on til the end of time i’m afraid, but the more we do for ourselves, the stronger we make ourselves.
steve- i bet your old ”dealer” has the same car because this isn’t a great business to be in. what he could be saving, he’s probably using it still himself. Maybe??? I know the feeling in a pharmacy, and I still don’t think its far not to walk up to the pharmacist and say, ”i’ll take 50 norcos. thanks, see you tomorrow!!” (JK) I know I’m stronger when I walk into the pharmacy to pick up something for hubby or myself, and i’m not looking all around, like for the police (wild imagination) , I can now look into my pharmacist eyes and know there is nothing to hide. But the feelings are still there, and they soon go away, because I know I’m not doing anything wrong. And that’s a good feeling. Another good feeling is, knowing I’ve accepted God into my life, I used to worry about when I passed, and I’d tell Him, “But I tried to stop.” And He’d look into my soul and say, “I watched, and you didn’t do enough. You tried and then quit. How is that trying?” Frightening feeling for me.
Glad we only have one more week in Jan then we can blog onto Feb. Everyone have a good day, and if you have sun, enjoy it. It’s foggy and wet and cold here! Think I’ll clean the garage!
January 25th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
JR. MD-The meetings Steve talk about are great. My only regret not living in SLO is not being able to make those meetings. Try to go. No on will bite you, promise
January 25th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Hello All
Eeeeks, when I posted on the Two Person Model my intent was to push forward the gravity of addiction not the drama. To suggest that the “addict” is empowered in some way with evil intent directed from some metaphysical realm certainly was never to be inferred. I’m also not naïve enough to believe that “the Addict “ in the Model suggests schizophrenia, or something out side my realm of responsibility, but I believe talking about addiction in the third person is a very useful way of interacting and understanding this disease on a basic level. The Doc. uses the argument of not interacting with the “addict” or feigning indifference. For me it’s sometimes hard to be indifferent about a disease that has affected my life in so many ways, I don’t dwell on the negatives of the disease and I don’t feed it strong emotions, and I do use it to build a better life, through 12 step programs, and helping others that are afflicted. So every time I go to an A/A meeting, which is a positive experience, I’m reminded of this disease so indifference is a little hard to come by on occasion. I think it’s best for me to use an analogy such as the addict as terrorist, you know that terrorists are out there and they effect your life daily (Bombings on the news, air travel, tighter security, etc) but you don’t cower in your closet in dread, afraid to go out, life goes on. Simply put your addict or addictions are only as powerful as you make him, her or it. But be assured that if you feed it, it will ruin your life in the end and I think we can all agree on that.
Strat.
January 25th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
I used vicodin, norcos they stopped working and made me have more of a head ache. I worked in a place with major quantities of morphine. Got a little one day, put it back knowing where it would lead. Next day, took it again and did some. WOW! such relief,,I was off and running, my tolerance got out of control. I went to wok every day. I hated the job. I tried to stop and couldn’t. It just called my name all day. I had a feeling of doom, like I was going to die, that’s cause I almost did. I hated myself. I couldn’t ask for help, didn’t know how or who to tell. I looked in the mirroe one night and said “God, Please help me!” I woke up on my kitchen floor a few hours later with an ambu bag on my face and the paramedics in my kitchen. I was rushed to hospital in an ambulance. My family was devastated. They said I was blue and thought I was dead. I am lucky I can walk and talk. I was in the hospital a week, then rehab. I was so relieved I was getting help!!!!! I knew God answered my prayer. I couldn’t/wouldn’t have done it any other way. You would think that would be it huh? I thought so at the time. I was NEVER going there again. No more withdrawals, etc. I was good until a very painful loss occurred in my life. I couldn’t deal, struggled, craved, went to meetings, told Doc I had a back ache, headache, leg ache, heartache. I ended up relapsing on pills. This last time on alcohol. I thought I could control. Don’t want this disease. Alcohol and pills are everywhere. I like to anesthetize myself. I have a hole in me I am trying to fill. I am not good enough, lonely,ugly,etc. I have 23 days today. I am glad I am back in recovery. I feel different this time. I have been reaching out more, calling people!! Meetings every day. I KNOW I can never take a drink or an opiate. Just the word makes me feel euphoric almost!
I am sorry this is so long. Sorry if this isn’t what we are supposed to write. I have to remember what happened and how close I came to either dying or worse,brain dead. (maybe that’s why doc thinks I am NTBBOT. (not the brightest bulb on the tree)???? My CT scan and MRI were clear BTW. LOL Miracle I am here. The promises all came true. My life is better than ever., happier person without the ETOH/pills. That’s where my addict takes me. Tells me I spend too much time in meetings. Tells me how fun it was, how fun I was (nodding out telling family “I am tired”)
I better stop. Sorry everyone.
DON”T STOP GOING TO MEETINGS. TELL WHAT IS GOING ON WITH YOU> Best wishes
JR M.D.
January 26th, 2010 at 12:12 am
I was reading the blogs about subs. I struggle with this too.
I mentioned the other day here I don’t like people knowing, not even any other doctors I go to.(ENT,dentist)
Has it made me gained weight? (or is it the chocolate or wine from last relapse) BTW subs and ETOH aren’t a good mix.
Do subs affect anyone’s libido?
what are the long term effects?
Do we need to wear a bracelet in case of a severe car accident and needing emergency medicine. What if they needed to give usa sedation on subs?
Is it forever? If not… when do you get off them?
Does it kill your endorphins (like other opiates?)
It’s nice to not have cravings.
Thanks everyone.
January 26th, 2010 at 4:56 am
Hi JR!! Saw your post about Subs, and I just wanted to tell you a few things I’ve noticed. First, I now think I’ll always be on Subs. I tried to “jump” a couple of weeks ago, and it was so bad. After I freaked out and detoxed, I was obsessing about all the old things again, Subs,vics, was having ALOT of LONG conversations with myself, or my “addict”, and realized that I definitely needed the subs or I was eventually going to end up back to how I was before SLOARC.
I didn’t gain any weight, in fact, I think I lost just a little.
And until recently, I wouldn’t tell a doctor I was on Subs either, mainly I think because I was afraid the doctor would automaticly think I was there to get drugs. BUT, I have went to Urgent Care twice in the past month, and neither Doctor knew what subs were, couldn’t even spell it, so being honest with them was kinda pointless. Also, I think it was Steve that gave me this little packet from the maker of the suboxone, and it had a card in there that you can give to a doc explaining everything about subs, and I think it even explained how pain management would have to be treated differently.
Umm, yea I’ve noticed it has affected my libido, or maybe it was already messed up from vics, and the subs just don’t help.
OH, one more thing, I learned that if I don’t brush my teeth soon after taking my med ( you know how it dissolves and is still in your teeth?), that my teeth will get SUPER sensitive and just ache! Weird, huh?
:)L
January 26th, 2010 at 8:01 am
Steve here: WOnderful blogs..thanks everyone. YES I have wallet cards at the office explaining Suboxone to other doctors you might encounter. YES there are pain medications that will give you relief in case of an emergency. Our addictics are constantly trying to find ways to convince us to stop taking that pesky Suboxone…You see, it gets in the way of what our addict wants to do with us, in a BIG WAY! Ha ha….The first thing your addict needs to do to get you high is get you OFF SUBOXONE! And it will give you tons of reasons why…(It’s too expensive, it taste bad, it rots my teeth, I don’t want to take a pill everyday, How will I get pain relief if both my arms and legs are chopped off in an accident, Doc and Steve are dicks, The makers of Suboxone are supporting war in the middle East, Suboxone will make your private parts drop off, my wife/husband doesn’t want me taking DOPE! On and on and on and on…..you guys know what I’m talking about…Just tell your addict to shut up and get back to them tomorrow!)
Then it’s a a slam dunk on a 4ft high basketball rim! Sure hope some of our new folks show up here. We have SEVERAL of them out there right now..COME ON AND JOIN IN!!!
Next SLOARC group session: will be Feb. 2nd 5:30pm at the office..
STEVE————out
January 26th, 2010 at 8:02 am
Good morning,
Well after that long rambling post I stuck up there yesterday I figured I’d post today to let you know I haven’t lost my sanity, or maybe I have, Jr. it’s like L says most Docs look at you with a blank stare when you tell them you’re on Subs., cut my finger wide open a month ago at work and had to go to the ER and all I got was an AH-HUH out of the Doc.
Might I add that right now you should probably just relax take you’re Subs and let it go at that, there’s a very fine line between obsessing about your D.O.C. and Obsessing about your Subs. I had the same thoughts when I first started the program and I found it best to treat them as you would a vitamin. Remember that your sign in name isn’t Jr.M.D. for nothin. I think L pretty much laid it out for you.
ROCKIN WHERE ARE YOU?
Strat
January 26th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Strat; My blog got long and lenghty also, but sometimes I think it is the best to let how you feel out from the inside out. Like Shrek says, better out than in.
JR. MD- Took me forever to tell my drs. here I was on sub. But then I faced 3 surgeries last year, and thought I should let them know. I gave them DrH and Steves number, and I don’t know if they ever called for advice from them? The 2 times I had to go to the hospital because my migraines wouldn’t go away, they asked me what I had taked, and I actually took the box with me and they hadn’t heard of it. Had heard of imitrex, but not amerge. Go figure. JR.MD, it’s good to worry, but don’t obsess. If you have LOTS of questions and don’t know the answers, call STEVE, and he LOVES to answer. No, really, he’s great about making you feel secure about your addiction, and questions you have. The great thing about sloarc is they KEEP UP ON WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They aren’t there just to hand you a script. This group cares and want you not to just take the first step, but all of them, and they help you. All the way. And I’m glad the paramedics got to you soon. It doesn’t matter how long or short your blog is, and never be sorry when you are finding out answers and writing nice to everyone.
L- I have this strange habit. When I take a pill, sometimes 20 minutes later I’m walking around doing my thing and I haven’t swallowed it yet. I think I just have a short attention span. But I’m also compulsive about brushing my teeth about every 2-3 hours. So,??? I don’t know the answer to that.
Strat- I wrote out to Rockin also. I think maybe she’s busy and trying to stay on task with work and HOPEFULLY with the program. She runs herself ragged, and I know I did the same thing when my mom was ill, and then my dad. I had to get everything done, then get over to them and sit with them, make it on bingo day, play day, Fiesta Day, all the picnics. Then I’d sit with my dad and watch tv til he fell asleep, drive home, and start my chores for the next day. You know your parents are ill, and you will loose them, so you spend every minute you can with them.
Some news last night. My Daughter in law came over poker night, so we had the time to sit and talk. she’s been dating someone for sometime now, and he’s become part of our family now, since he doesn’t have much of his own. I was looking at her, and said, “you are pregnant.” She turned white or blue, I’m not sure which, but she assured me that they had thoght she was also, but after a week of home tests, she had started her period the day before. Mother Nature isn’t always correct, like home pregnancy tests, and she called me from work last night and said she’d been to the dr. that day, and yes, she’s pregnant. she asked me to help plan this wedding also (which broke my heart yet made it soar), told me the date, on the beach in MB, only a few people, with the reception at the house. Then she asked me to do the same thing she did when the girls were born. She asked me to stay in the hospital Aug26th through the night, and help take care of the baby, and could the baby call us nana and poppa. I felt my son smile in my heart, and know I’ll always have him in our lives, mixed up as it is. I fell asleep with visions of my son holding their baby in his arms waiting til its time for God to send the baby to us. Silly, i know.
January 26th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Hi
Thanks for the replies! Good info! made me smile too. I need one of those cards!!!! For my other docs (not doctor shopping-OB, dentist, etc) family, and SPONSOR. does not want me taking this. Concerned, says anything you withdraw from you should not have???!!! Very confused right now. I committed to my sponsor to go to any lenghts. I am doing EVERY thing she says. 90/90, home work , calling people, not talking to my mom, not writing my mom (does my sponsor know what she is doing?) Love her, very smart in Recovery BUT…???? Not always sure right now which voice is the murderer.
January 26th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Your sponsor has probably had experience. She’s been to meetings, soaked it up, and I would trust my sponsor, (and do) before I’d trust my own sister.
As far as withdrawling from ”anything you should not have to???” Well, sounds like you ended up on morphine? Major quanities I believe you said. You sound pretty smart, so put the puzzle together yourself, with a little help. Massive/ or lots of morphine (my DOC was SEVERAL norcos) And I get sick because my refills didn’t last as long as they were supposed to. OH, the bottle looked enormously full when I picked it up, and i was SURE this would be the time I made it to the next refill time without running out. By the first evening, the bottle looked like 1/4 was gone. Oh, my imagination. But they kept going down, down, and it had only been 5 days. They were supposed to last me 20 days. It didn’t take long to realize that I was an addict. SO, go to DR. H, he explained how it worked, and I was on so many fewer pills, saving SO much money monthly, and it worked. I don’t care if anyone considers me not sober because I take suboxone. Sub make me not take tons of norcos. I just consider myself a diabetic. Would anyone not want me to take medicatio because I was a diabetic and watch me get sicker and more ill? I don’t think so. They would want me to do what the dr. tells me to do and stay well, and maybe even get better. Dr.H and Steve are doing the same thing. But everything in our life is OUR decision. I’m facing a decision about my knees, and answers don’t always come easy. The only thing that gets to me is people who say “I don’t have enough money for the Dr. and suboxone.” But if they were looking for their dealer and buying their DOC, I’m sure the money I used on norcos were way more than what I need for SLOARC. In fact I KNOW I spent more money in the days. So, I figure those people just don’t want to get well yet. And I pray their time will come. But $500 this week, $300 for the week that the 500 didn’t last, $400, $300, a deal for $1200…add it up, and that is probably 1/2 a month. Dr.H is dirt cheap, but don’t tell him that. (haha) Take it easy, use the good mind the Lord gave you, and common sense helps always.
Dr.H or Steve- know you can’t tell us much, but can you just let us know is Rockin is okay? Thanks If she’s reading, we love you sweetie.
I’m coming to MB the second week of Feb. Hate to stay home during the Tulare Equipment show. Maybe I’ll see some of you then. TTFN
January 26th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Ughh, had a headache all day! Nothing helped! Went to a meeting, felt a little better. Working on Letting go! Lot’s of crap in my life I don’t need to deal with right now. Read a good passage by Emmett Fox. Substitution.
Substitute positive thoughts and/or God with the ones that are buging you. Thought it was a good way to explain Letting go!
January 26th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
I really do know bugging has 2 g’s. Can’t type!
January 26th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
Steve Here…..Just please keep this up folks! I LOVE reading all you have to say…I’m STILL WAITING for some new folks to pop on so I can “approve” them and we can get some new perspective here…As far as Rockin’ is concerned, I’ll let her tell her story..SHe’s having some rough times, but is still with us thank goodness!
BTW I have ALA-NON stuff in my desk if any of you want to take it home to your S.O.’s….It can be very helpful….
Steve—–out
January 27th, 2010 at 12:18 am
I’m tired of being a drug addict, I want to stick with my suboxone, but sometimes the dilodin and speed is calling too strongly. I hit my head every day and say thatt hurts yet i continue to do it(of course i am talking metaphorically) Tommmorow I am trying to stick with my suboxone and ativan and meetings, my job is thankless one school is very hard and I thave a girl who doesn’t love me back. I have a comfortable feeling that tommorow can be a new day.
January 27th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Good Morning all
Hey Jr. my sponsor doesn’t even know I’m on subs, it’s just easier that way. A lot of the old school A/Aers don’t understand the new model of addiction, not the substance but your interaction with, and most are purest and will even tell new comers to get off anti- depressants because they falsely believe that they alter your consciousness which results in really bad results for a lot of people. You might want to direct her to this web site for a little education, http://www.naabt.org/, you also might want to withdrawal is not addiction it’s withdrawal people withdraw from coffee and cigarettes. But what ever you do, do not stop taking your medication because somebody who means well but is ill informed has told you she doesn’t want you on it.
Strat
January 27th, 2010 at 9:39 am
That should read, you should let her know Withdrawal is not addiction it’s Withdrawal
January 27th, 2010 at 11:07 am
I agree with stratman- I too keep my suboxone treatment to myself. It may be a little tricky with the nursing board but we will see. I have to report any meds I take to them. They too think that anti depressents are mood altering-(um ya thats the point) for that matter so is sex-good sex that is- do I have to report that?? At this point I am so thrilled to be able to practice my profession again I will do whatever they want. I think I may start looking for jobs that aren’t direct patient care- I think that PACU, ICU and L&D, my old stomping grounds, are a good idea initally. Although I do long to work L&D again- it was my favorite. Well I have to go study, they are making me take my licensing boards over again and I must admit I am a little rusty. The point of all this is….. I have the opportunity to start a wonderful new life free of drugs and the misery they cause. It has been a little over 3 years of hard work but it is so worth it. So those of you who still struggle with addiction and relapse- keep coming back it may take you 30 tries but that 31st try it may happen- don’t give up- god I hope I don’t sound like a cheerleader-
MK
p.s. Hi Jane you are in my thoughts- keep up the good work(and ignore your sister she has her own issues she is projecting on to you)
January 27th, 2010 at 11:08 am
oops I meant that ICU, PACU and L&D are NOT good ideas initally.
January 27th, 2010 at 11:33 am
ok one more- I went to the MD last week (annual check-up) wrote suboxone as one of the meds I take- they don’t know what it is. I don’t know if that is good or bad. BTW welcome Jr. MD we have much in common I think!
MK
January 27th, 2010 at 11:43 am
MK-LOL Good Sex? How about ANY sex right now? OK, I know ICU, PACU, but not L&D. So, what areas would you look into? At least after you pass the boards, you indeed will be making a decent living again, something you love to do, and can kick the people in the butts who say you can’t recover. Study, study, study. Good luck to you.
One of the first things Dr.H told me when going to AA meetings is not to mention that you are on subs. I guess they would hang onto their purses tighter, and look for needle marks. Some people are SO ignorant. I also don’t mention my subox or drugs at my AA meetings either.
Rockin…sorry to hear you are having some rough patches, but SO glad that you keep hanging in there. U R WORTH IT!. You deserve a Purple Heart. Just remember that you yourself do have a large heart, who wants to help everyone, but cant always be done. You have to take care of YOURSELF first and get better. Much love to you as always, and keep swinging. At the bad stuff. And like I’ve said before, don’t pile so much on yourself that you get lost. xoxoxoxo
JR. You sound like you are doing really well. Keep it up. Back to the garage work. Need the space to start growing our heirloom tomatoes. Hubby’s already taken my garage office away, where I store extra dishes, crock pots, cooking pans, seasonal dishes….what ever makes the man happyl TTFN
January 27th, 2010 at 11:49 am
P.S. I think she wants L&D because you handle less Narcs in that Dept. mostly spinal blocks. Fentanyl Citrate mostly. i’m I wromg M.K.?
January 27th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
PATIENT “G” …. WELCOME!!!!
“Steady as she goes” ALWAYS a good idea.
Don’t bother with the whole “love” thing, it ’s over-rated!
The move here is to STOP “discussing” and “debating” stuff with your ADDICT, and I fear you make the fatal mistake of trying to get stronger so you can win the fight, while the trick is to NOT FIGHT.
Odd move, but it WORKS!
Dr H
January 27th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Here’s patient G’s post in case you missed it, took us a few to get him approved!
Dr H
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
patient G Says:
January 27th, 2010 at 12:18 am
I’m tired of being a drug addict, I want to stick with my suboxone, but sometimes the dilaudid and speed is calling too strongly. I hit my head every day and say that hurts yet i continue to do it(of course i am talking metaphorically) Tomorrow I am trying to stick with my suboxone and ativan and meetings, my job is thankless one school is very hard and I have a girl who doesn’t love me back. I have a comfortable feeling that tomorrow can be a new day.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
So now were just showing off our detailed knowledge of the medications?
Not sure about the “citrate” but fentanyl is certainly a “player” eh?
I’ve always been surprised at the availability of non-patch derived fentanyl, “clandestine” was the word I would hear.
As I look at the potency and price dilaudid seems a good buy for the thrifty addict, but I’m informed it is not near as enjoyable as oxycodone.
From my medical viewpoint it would seem an opiate is an opiate and the sensation would be rather indistinguishable from one to the other. But then again I never understood Steve when he says the Smirnoff “blue” gives a different drunk from the regular.
Dr H
January 27th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
No, not trying to be a smarty pants that’s what’s written on the outside of the I.V. bags. WELCOME “G” and yes tomorrow is a new day and like the Doc. says slow and steady, every day it get’s a little better and brighter. Yea dilaudid was always my top choice, always full bodied with a heady bouquet with a slightly smoky aftertaste, just kidding of course but yea Doc. there are different effects from different delivery systems. You’d think there wouldn’t be but there is and it’s probably all subjective, oh well. Keep posting G.
strat
January 27th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
so i finally decided to stop lurking and join the conversation. i’m an alcoholic coming up on 90 days sober…been seeing Dr.H and Steve for about five months and I can honestly say their program is the first i’ve ever felt totally comfortable in. they’ve been nudging me in the direction of the blog for a while now, so here i am. nothing too important on my mind right now, but i’ll be around…so ‘Hi’ everybody!
January 27th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Steve here!!! WELCOME “RP!” Now that wasn’t so hard was it? Ha ha….Glad you are here…Tell us more of your story whenever you are comfortable with it….
What a day….Lots of people getting clean and sober out there!
Next SLOARC group Session: Tuesday, Feb. 2nd 5:30pm!
Steve—-out
January 28th, 2010 at 12:26 am
I just read back to the who two-person model thing. i didn’t think there was any drama, i thought we were all just talking, but who knows, that’s the trouble with blogging sometimes, you don’t know what people intend to say or how they want you to take it. you just have to guess.
i used to LOVVEE fentanyl suckers. just saw that doc had written about those so i had to add that.
Welcome RP! 90 days is big. keep it up.
Went to a meeting tonight, a friend of mine took his year chip and his dad was there. His dad shared during the meeting and cried the entire time. He told us how grateful he was and how proud he was of his son. He also told all of us to remember that our parents love us and that we have people who care. It was really touching. Made it hard not to cry. I certainly put my mom and sis through a lot. To love an addict…probably not smart, but i’m sure happy people do. Sometimes the love of my family is the only thing that keeps me going. I like to pause sometimes and thank my higher power for my family. They should hate me, but they don’t. I don’t know what I would do without them. I’m so glad I have the chance to make a living amends to them. That has been one of the greatest gifts I have received in sobriety.
Have a good night, everyone!
JWS.
January 28th, 2010 at 8:14 am
WELCOME RP!!!
See, that wasn’t so hard was it?
What’s your take on the whole “Are addicts and Alcoholics disabled?” question? Seems that might be something to share here. Also tell the folks a little about yourself. There is another drinker lurking who was uncomfortable about blogging because it was all Suboxone people and not enough old fashioned alcoholics, so use the words “drink” and “alcohol” and stuff to lure her in!
My 18 year old son has a comedy thing he does about AA celebration of “not doing something”.
He wants to celebrate:
“I haven’t done any yard work in three months”
Don’t read judgment into it, because there isn’t, but it IS an unusual concept.
I LOVED the scene in Finding Elmo where the sharks are at a 12-Step meeting and “Hi, I’m Bruce, I haven’t eaten a fish for three months”
“Hi Bruce” the other sharks say.
Steve, what’s your take on this?
Can we start a discussion about “Drama Junkies”? One see’s this all the time in the field of addiction. I never really thought much about the connection.
Dr H
January 28th, 2010 at 8:47 am
was that last post steve or the doc? BTW, it’s finding Nemo…elmo’s the red furry guy. but I love the 12 step sharks as well…
January 28th, 2010 at 9:03 am
Finding Nemo, Finding Elmo, whatever!
I like it when there’s casual reference to recovering persons in the media. Lawrence Block has a protagonist “Matthew Scudder” who is an off again/on again alcoholic. In the book “8 Million Ways to Die” there is a superb 5 page description of a relapse that sounds JUST like several real life relapses we’ve seen here at SLOARC.
So…… wonder if I can lure out “chuckles” who has had two CLASSIC relapses on alcohol while his drug of choice is really opiates. Brings up the question of “honesty”.
Steve and I don’t have any judgment about relapses, fish swim, birds fly, addicts use. People say stuff like “I thought you’d be mad at me” or “I let you down” or “You’re not going to be happy with me”.
Hogwash I say!
Dr H
January 28th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
alright, so here’s my ‘two cents’ on the whole alcoholic/addict on disabilty debate. let me begin with this: are alcoholism/addictions diseases? I think the general consensus on this blog would be ‘yes.’ is it a chronic, lifelong disease? another yes, at least from me. If a person in our society were afflicted with a physical disease that impaired their ability to work and required treatment in order that they can begin to recover from their disease I believe that they would qualify for disability benefits and insurance would be picking up the tab for treatment of their disease so that they could begin to recover. This is not to say that the disease afficted individual would be disabled forever. we begin to heal. as people begin to recover from their diseases, they begin to find the strength return to their lives, their work and begin to become productive members of society once again. The tendency in this country is to punish individuals afflicted with our disease and incarcerate them, to lock them up in places where the things that exacerbate the symptoms of their disease “(drugs/alcohol) are just as if not more readily available than they are on the street. i say chemo for the cancer patient, treatment and counseling for the alcoholic/addict.
There are also those alcoholics/addicts that are dually diagnosed with substance abuse problems as well as a mental illnesses. As someone who has worked in treating the mentally ill for more that six years now, I have treated countless individuals with mental illnesses who are also alcoholics/addicts. They drink and use to self-medicate, to make the voices go away, to mask the symptoms of their mental illness. which came first, the chicken or the egg? the addiction or the mental illness? I don’t know, but does it really matter? If someone smokes for thirty years and develops lung cancer, do we treat them or just tell them it’s their own damn fault for smoking? I think that there is such a stigma in this country when it comes to diseases of addiction as well as diseases of the mind. people with these diseases are viewed as ‘less than,’ as second-class citizens who are somehow responsible for their own illness. In my opinion, a disease is a disease and alcoholics/addicts should have the same right to be treated for their disease as someone with a physical ailment. they should have the same access to medical care so that they can begin to recover and beat their disease into remission. alright, so i’m beginning to get tangental and preachy so i’m going to get off my soapbox. thanks for listening…
January 28th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
damn, that may actually have been more like 3 cents…maybe even a nickel…
January 28th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Stratman you are correct- but I also love the department. I am beginning to think we have things in common. BTW no good addict wants fentanyl- too short of a half-life- I personally was a fan of demerol- dilladid was too strong for me- I ended up throwing up in the breakroom- there is a charming scenario for you. I have to say I do not miss it. When I think of the harm I could have caused, I am grateful i found a way out.
Rockin- where are you? u r in my thoughts and prayers
Dr. H- love your sons idea (smart-alec) my daughter has that concept down but it applies to her room.
MK
January 28th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Hi - I’m new to the blog. The topic of addiction as a disease sparked my interest. I’m reading an Agatha Christie book written in 1930. A doctor (fictional) in the book has a theory that crime might be a matter of ‘glandular secretion’. He thinks crime may be a physical lack, rather than a moral one. Interesting this came up in 1930, even in fiction.
January 28th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Hi me again- This is under the heading of WTF- Health Plus Pharmacy here in SLO does carry generic buprenorphine. It is the same exact price as suboxone. So the whole saving money using generics goes down the tubes. See now if I was making a generic version of an expensive drug I would charge less otherwise there is no reason whatsoever to buy it. I mean if I am spending the money I want a real Chanel not a knock-off. Just my thoughts
MK
January 28th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Welcome 2 PG and RP. Hope u enjoy the company MK how’s the job shopping coming along. Could use a nurse today. Been babysitting the little one all week;she has bronchitis and can’t go to preschool. She sneezes in my face, doesn’t wash hands to well and uses her growing out bangs as tissues when her nose runs. She’s only 3 and tries so hard. On antibiotic and will be up soon. Hope.
Drh. Love to see u keeping up on Disney movies. If u really think about it, so much in their movies r bout being different and dealing with it. Just likeus! And lol with mk an dr. Daughters been promising 2 clean her room since she moved back in 2 years ago.
Re: disability. We work hard, own our business, pay taxes, and r not against disability….. If u need a helping hand to get back on your feet, and not to use it to not work, eat lobster… U know what i’m saying I hope. It’s not a perfect government, but a damn good one. I figure someday I may need help, and God help me to help me get back on my feet again. Nuff of my opinion.
Have a good day and Rockin, let us know how u r when u r ready. Remember how awesome u are.
January 28th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
I feel extremely uncomfortable writing this blog.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
KC!!!!!!
Nottablogger!!!!!
Will wonders EVER cease, next thing you know, chuckles will show up!
WELCOME KC, your showing up here is a tangible and positive action in support of your recovery. Just like Nottablogger says, it’s uncomfortable
First KC…. Agatha Christie??!! The world talks about what a fantastic mystery writer she is, but I think her books are lame and pathetic. I bet that says more about ME than about her though, “Murder Mysteries” is what I read.
Glandular disease?
And RP, which came first… ??
Then Notttablogger… of COURSE you’re uncomfortable! Your ADDICT does NOT want you to do things that threaten their ability to get you to use!
One would think an addict/alcoholic would get FED UP with relapsing… fed up enough to call every day? Fed up enough to blog even though it’s not “comfortable”?
I am absolutely amazed it it so IMPOSSIBLE for addicts to call a phone number once a day, I even had to offer someone to call and hang up just so we saw the caller id on the missed call.
I’m working on a theory…
Dr H
January 28th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Why would I want to blog when the first time I do you call me lame and pathetic? I have some books I’ve read so many times I can read in my sleep (almost literally). I thought it an odd coincidence I came up with this particular one last night…
Had a great time out with my Pismo AA Hoodies tonight. Too much Diet Pepsi at Applebee’s. It’s amazing the strange/unique/interesting conversations that come up in a group of alkies.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:03 am
Dr an steve very entertaining. Thru have great sense of humors, they just make us look for them! JK so hi to those here before and welcome 2 everyone new. Guess no sleep couple of nights put me in a strange mood, and worried bouillon Rockin.k. Would there ever b a horrible chance u would have to move for a job? ( pray not) will b calling drh or steve today
jinny an I are do excited ( I mean hubby)and I r so excited bout leaving early for morro bay with just the two of us. We may even make it by10 am then next week I b byyself. He gets sp tired during Tulare show an best I stay out of his way. Lol. Who knows. Everyone have a good day. Ttfn
January 29th, 2010 at 8:47 am
You’re right KC, my comment was rude, I was really trying to slam Agatha Christie, NOT you!
I am Uber-excited to have you here with us (teenager term, means ultimately)
My escape reading genre is mysteries, and I have come to be an opinionated old codger (or perhaps a curmudgeon, which is what my kids call me). Who are your other favorites, I’m currently reading Lee Childs with “Jack Reacher” character.
I’ll go back and edit and see if I can express the idea better without saying something crude right out of the gate to a new blogger, my bad! You are SO WELCOME here and I truly wish to ENCOURAGE joining in the stream of consciousness. Sometimes I “tease” as a form of expressing a closer relationship with the person. A relationship that includes “play” along with the other aspects.
I see posting on the blog here as something amazingly positive to peoples recovery, it is a VERY “un-ADDICT” thing to do. I’m still trying to coherently grasp why that’s true. Like the phone calling.
Several people have CALLED Steve and I when they were having acute problems that were a threat to their sobriety. This was NEW behavior and solidly in the direction of positive change.
Dr H
January 29th, 2010 at 8:53 am
Good morning everyone!I have 27 days today.
Been going to meetings every day! went to NA too.
I have been struggling with a NEW block to my sub use. Then I came on here and LOL. Welcome G. MK -WOW! I just heard the diversion authorities do NOT want nurses taking subs. Someone I know had to pee in a cup in SLO at $80.00 each time whenever they said and had to ask to go out of town! I would shoot myself before I would do that! I tried to find a place with no temptations, is there one? I actually was coming on to post about that and I read your comment. I STRUGGLE with this and did fine until a tragedy happened. Couldn’t deal! I had clean time without Subs but then I didn’t.
Alcohol huh? Did I mention I am an alcoholic? This last time I went out on alcohol because I thought I could control it?? I always knew i was an opiate addict-never could control-never tried to control Alcohol -had to give it a go! DON”T TRY
KC-try not to take DR H’s comments too seriously. He doesn’t mean it mean. He told me once, I was damaged goods, not the brightest bulb on the tree, etc. I know he cares tho and it is his sense of humor. (he probably thinks it anyway)
G- I hate being an addict AND an alcoholic! It is difficult. If you don’t want one you want the other!!! What do you take for real pain?? Nothing fun!! I LOVE the euphoria!!!!! I MISS it!!!
Fentanyl? Morphine is the BEST!!!! I am starting to salivate.
I am going out of town. looking up meetings. hubby will be thrilled! (just kidding, he is being real nice and even suggested I do)
Dr H- I love it when shows have alcoholics! The Closer- her husband FBI agent goes to meetings when she is a bitch!!
NOt a blogger- It took me 3 years to write on here. It feels kind of good. (Except Dr H knows who it is) I am worried people at my work will read and figure me out???
January 29th, 2010 at 8:56 am
I just proof read my blog after i sent, Maybe DR H is right about my intelligence??
Anyway-just to clarify-first paragraph is about takings subs. spelling is awful, cause I can’t type. I had clean time without them for 3 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 29th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Goodness, I’m being revealed as the insensitive monster I truly am!!
My family uses WAY WAY WAY too much sarcasm, and Steve points out to me what a DANGEROUS thing it is.
JR MD, you are BRILLIANT! You are making the moves that are most likely to result in long term sobriety, and many of them were not easy! Not everyone can get to 12-Step meetings, their ADDICT won’t let them. Not everyone can get honest. Every day Steve and I see many patients lying, and it’s odd to consider someone making the effort to show up to an appointment and then lie about what’s going on! I supports the two-person model so perfectly. The non-addict drags the unit to the appointment, then the ADDICT starts saying stuff.
There was a comment a patient made one day that Steve and I refer to because it had both sides speaking in the same sentence.
“It was my drinking that drove him away, but he was an a**hole anyway.”
Thanks for the honesty Jr MD, the blog doesn’t need too many “specifics” and it’s anonymous, so you can mislead and massage the specifics. Just because I know who you are doesn’t mean you have to reveal yourself here, I’ll never tell!
Dr H
January 29th, 2010 at 11:15 am
I think about drugs constantly, but its getting better. Its kind of like when you are driving in your car, and you suddenly notice the mountains beyond the road. I’m still far away from the mountains though.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Jr MD when I was in early recovery I too was sad- I felt I would never get to feel that “feeling” of opiates again and how I was going to miss being happy. I thought that those people who jumped through the hoops of calling and testing and asking permission were out of their minds. Now I feel so grateful to be able to practice again that I will do whatever it takes. The thought of opiates gives me a headache- I shudder to think of that life. It took me three years to get here but if you told me in 2006 this is how I would be I would have laughed in your face. Believe it or not if you keep up the good work eventually the obsession will leave you and you will be free of that craving, I am living proof. But I do get where you are coming from.
MK
January 29th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
MK- I suspect you are a like a little girl starting K, and the day before the first day of school you lay out your favorite outfit, you have a nice new hairdo that your mom talked you into, new socks and shoes, and you are excited, but then start to feel what do they call them? “Butterflies in your tummy?” You don’t sleep to well the night before, drink your milk because your mom knows about the butterflys. You walk into your special ”room”, and the butterflies stop flying so much. You know this. You’ve been there before. But somewhere there’s a funny ”not so good feeling.” you tell yourself, “I’m fine,I’ll Be fine, I AM fine. I worked 3 years for this day to come, and I’m not gonna mess it it. I know I’ll be watched more, but that’s okay. I have a cool new outfit.” MK- I can’t wait for your wheels to start spinning againg. I suspect you would be the type of nurse telling me everything will go smoothly, you’ll be there the whole time, you WILL wake up.” And God bless the addict person who gets you while recovering. You may not talk about it, but you will recognize it, and you will help them handle it with comforting hands and a loving heart. You’ve come into the best of your career. Full circle.
NotABlogger- It’s hard not to think about something we’ve done everyday, several times aday for months, years. It’s just natural. But with sub (if you are taking) and meetings and appointments with Dr.H and Steve, the thinking about the drugs, wanting the drugs will subside. How long will it take? Depends on different people.
I read about someone who had a tragedy. Yea, those are the shits. Especially when you are just starting to get off of your DOC. I went through one; lost my son in a car accident, and called to cancel my appointment with Patty and told her what had happened, and I’d call back. I didn’t. I went back on Norcos. Soon Dr. was calling and leaving messages, which I listened to close to my heart, but to scared to call. He kept calling, and one day I called back. Boy, I was on the phone to him so fast, and this was on a Thursday afternoon. I live 2-3 hours away, and he said, “COME TOMORROW! ANYTIME.” The trust or stupidity he had in me to see if I’d show up. I was nervous. We have a house in MB and ended up driving there, called the offce saying I was sorry, it would be a bit longer. “Oh pooh, no problem. Rick and I are just doing some cleaning.” The office did look nice. He got me back on the path, and that was that.Nice guy, nice place.
The meetings that Steve holds are great, even though I’ve only been to one. Take Care all. TTFN.
ROCKING- miss you…
January 29th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
One reason I don’t like blogging is because people can’t see me laughing and hear me smiling (yes I know that is wrong) while I’m typing. I knew you were kidding Dr H and I was kidding back. I’ll have to add the HaHa from now on. And by the way, talk about pathetic, Jack Reacher, homeless, let’s blow it up, I can shoot from 200 yards away kind of guy. I like the “who dun its”. And also - ‘uber’ is the German word for ‘over’. I could go on, but I won’t. Too much stuff in my head that no one understands. But that’s not a bad thing! I’m still laughing. Hope all of you are. Went over step 4 today with my sponsor. Maybe that’s why I’m out of my head. Haha. No saracsam inteaded. KC
January 29th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
WOW so much good stuff going on here on the ol’ SLOARC blog! Thanks to all of you! Steve here….I LOVE seeing some of you at our local 12-step meetings…Such a nice connection to have….
This is a journey through life you DO NOT want to miss….I’ve been around for many years, messed up, and in recovery, and I’m finding these are the best of years of my life so far…Even when I think back about my wild bartending, pseudo rock star life in the ski resorts of Colorado back in the late 70’s and early 80’s, doing mountains of cocaine, drinking, messin’ with heroin, and any kind of pill that any dirt bag had in his pocket, womanizing; all through those times there was something buried deep down inside me, that always nagged at me..A little voice saying “you’re having a great time right now Steve, but it’s all gonna fall to pieces and lots of folks are gonna get hurt before it’s all over!” (BTW, that little voice was right! People got hurt, people died.)
Today, I listen to my inner voice, because it always tells the truth, whether I like it or not….
Life Rocks today, a lot of the reason is I get to interact with all you cool people on a daily basis….Please continue to communicate with me and stay honest; I promise we can work through ANYTHING together….
Later,
Steve—out
January 29th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Oops, i see another blog got edited/deleted! Better be careful!!! This is scary!!!!
When you guys go to your GROUP do you know who is who???
Made it through the evening of free wine, with a TALL glass of water!!! Worked out and swam! I feel good!!!!
Dr H- why do you ask about addiction and disability???
Insurance companies recognize it as a disease. It takes time to come off drugs/alcohol and learn how to live life. People need time to go to many meetings, exercise, sleep. Since our sleep patterns get so F****ed up.
Work would be dangerous for some of us!!!! I was on disability for a year!!! I needed it to be successful in this! I was lucky enough to take another year off. I knew I wasn’t ready for the stress or to be around certain “items”. I knew I couldn’t get a job as the head pill counter, etc.
Don’t need disability now though!
This is a serious disease! Terminal (if you will).
It’s the only disease we have control over our remission! (by going to meetings, steps, etc)
It amazes me that we struggle so doing that. I have taken care of people with Cancer who would do anything to stay healthy and live a full life!!!
Weird huh?
Another question I struggle with about subs.- I am told to have rigorous honesty. I feel weird not telling my sponsor. I just did my 1st step again the other day. She asked me if I could be thoroughly honest. I am in every other way but feel guilty!!!!
January 29th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
MK- I don’t know what happened to my blog earlier. I think I said too much again.
We DO have a LOT in common!!!
January 29th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
doc- in response to your question about which came first when i was ranting about addiction and mental illness…in my opinion, it’s different for each individual. I’ve worked with lots of patients with mental illnesses who swear they never started using until they started having Sx of their mental illnesses. especially so for schizophrenics; they’d begin experiencing hallucinations, paranoia, hearing voices, seeing things and they’d self-medicate using alcohol or drugs because at first it worked to quiet the voices, make them less paranoid and let them pass out at night to quiet their minds…of course after years of chronic use this no longer works and their symptoms are significantly worse after years of heavy drinking and using…same holds true for someone who may start out with a mild case of depression. they start drinking or using to achieve that sense of euphoria that we have all experienced at the beginning of our alcoholic/addict careers. but that initial feeling of euphoria eventually goes away and we continue to use to escape, to obliviate, to make it so that we not only don’t feel depressed, but don’t feel anything anymore. I know this is at least partly true in my case.
Then you’ve got your well adjusted folks. Those that seemingly experienced no symptoms of mental illness until they started drinking or using. maybe they started drinking/using recreationally. maybe they already had a dormant mental illness to begin with that triggered some kind of psychotic break. I’m think mostly of meth as i write about this. I have a number of friends/aquaintances from high school and college who were seemingly well adjusted and ‘normal’ until they started using meth, and within a few years, their minds went to mush, many needed antipsychotic medications to function. i’ve even wound up seeing some as patients in the hospital where i work…awkward. i generally quickly remove myself from their treatment team. alright, this is getting long again and i’m getting tired. hope that made sense.
Where do I fall into all of this? I remember having feelings of depression growing up, I mostly grew out of it, but when I hit high school was when my love affair with alcohol and marijuana began and followed me into college. It was all great for a long time, and the irishman in me could drink anyone under the table. I fell in love for the first time, had my heart broken (there’s a great line from a movie with nic cage, “I can’t remember anymore if I started drinking because she left, or if she left because I started drinking”). Started drinking more (up to a handle of seagrams 7 a day by this point) …after a few months of this I had to leave school with my first full-blown episode of depression. Got on anti-depressants, yadayadayada, stayed sober for a while, went back to drinking…that’s enough sharing for tonight. Hope you all have wonderful weekends an have a chance to make it outside and enjoy the beautiful weather!
January 29th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
RP, Thanks for reminding me the euphoria stopped and I was just depressed and miserable, a prisoner so to speak. With a sense of impending doom.
I forgot it stopped working!
January 29th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Jr. MD, Steve from SLOARC here….sometimes blogs just “glitch” out and disappear…..I doubt that you were “censored” out unless there was info that would totally break your anonymity….Doc and I are pretty easy going as far as censoring blogs….
Keep up the good work..and yes, those of us that come to group certainly know each others blog names and such….
Anonymity gets confused sometimes….The 12-step program states we should be anonymous at the level of press, radio and films……We NEED TO KNOW who we are amongst ourselves so we can help each other! That’s how the program grows and works for newcomers…
Steve—-out
January 30th, 2010 at 9:08 am
Neither Steve nor I are editing or censoring etc Jr MD, something else might be going wrong on your end…
Occasionally I fix typos and take out things that might be a tad too revealing about who’s who, but as Steve says, in general we leave it alone, sometimes even when there’s a STRONG urge to meddle.
RP - Fascinating topic!
Are addicts depressed and drink to relieve it, or do they drink and then get depressed.
I hate to think about it, but there is a second simple model of the disease I have that I haven’t reconciled with my two-person model.
“Addicts are uncomfortable in the un-drugged state, drugs help that!”
As I’m typing I’m getting a glimmer of how to fit it in, but it supports the “self-medicating” concept.
BUT…
Some addicts show up and they are VERY depressed and anxious, they achieve “sobriety” and are FINE, while others aren’t okay and they play with drugs and “whack-a-mole” and chronically relapse and can’t seem to get “free” of their disease, and yet others who get sober and have residual mood issues that are FINE with other non-intoxicating medications.
Three groups? Different and distinct? Gradations of the same problem?
What’s the difference between sobriety and recovery? Is there one? How come the occasional addict stops, does nothing else, and does just fine thank you? (RARE - I ADVISE AGAINST THIS!!)
Why do some out of control young persons who fit all criteria for raging out of control addicts go on to STOP behaving dysfunctionally and can even drink in moderation without problems?
DANGEROUS topic huh?
Let me assure you… NO ONE HERE will EVER fit that description!
DR H
January 30th, 2010 at 9:12 am
And if one comes to Steve’s group and does NOT want to reveal their blog identity, that is AOK! Right Steve?
It might take a little work and effort, and I would encourage pretending “what blog?”, but allowed for sure.
(Tune me up if this isn’t how you see it Steve)
Dr H - Sr M.D.
January 31st, 2010 at 10:00 pm
I think some people are born addicts/alcoholics and some just end up that way because it’s a progressive disease. (they caught it drinking too much)lol.
It also is about not being taught any coping skills. My mom used to medicate me and make me a hot toddy if there was anything remotely disturbing going on so I could sleep (or most likely so I would shut up and go away) Then you couldn’t talk about it ever again. There’s a good message for you!!!
No wonder I can’t stand any discomfort!!!!
So.. what do I do when something happens I don’t like??? Anesthetize and want to be asleep??? She asked me the other day why I have this problem???! I didn’t blame her of course, but I DO THINK it played a role.
My ancestors were big drinkers, worked in the alcohol business. i only saw how much fun everyone was having laughing and singing!!! I really think it is in the genes.
I freaked when I found out I couldn’t have anything!!?? (not even poppy seed muffins, ny quil,or benadryl!) How do you go to a BBQ? Ski? Swim? talk? cook? have an anniversary??
I think it is both, people drink cbecause they are depressed, want to fit in, etc.
Of course it causes more depression eventually!!!
Can young people who are out of control ragers stop and drink moderately?? Do they smole pot? Is there some other crutch? Maybe they were never alcoholic and just partying a litttle too hard.?
I don’t get the moderation thing anyway. THAT is what makes us alcoholics.
We THINK differently! Normal peolple wouldn’t even want to get drunk before a big stressful event they were worried about. We want to drink to quell discomfort. ONE drink does NOT make sense!!!>> WHY?? what good is that?
Sorry, i am rambling.
I am almost done raising my hand as a newcomer!